Life isn't black and white with "good/bad". Further, there's no objective measure of what is good or bad. Everything is a shade of gray.
You certainly could argue that some actions are absolutely good or absolutely bad, but those aren't the majority of actions people take on a day to day basis. People aren't often faced with "should I kill this person" or "should I publish the cure for cancer". Instead it's "should I eat a hamburger or a salad" or "Should I finish this jira case or that jira case".
For example, you could argue that anyone working in an automotive plant is doing something bad because they are helping to produce vehicles which burn fuel which perpetuates climate change. But those plants also often produce parts for farm equipment or vehicles used to transport necessities like food.
People working at AI companies can make similar personal calculations. Like yeah there are bad things happening because of AI, but also they can believe that there are good things that can come as a result such as research and product developments.
But there are several workable contextual definitions of bad; it’s your job to know what they are.
For example:
- it would cause a harm to someone who was not made aware of the risk up front.
- it would cause someone to lose a job they didn’t know was under threat.
- the way the harm occurs precludes its only corrective/curative action or has no adequate compensation.
Bad things are almost always contextual but also almost always obvious in that context.
You can’t avoid bad things that you can’t foresee. If you do not attempt to avoid, avert or mitigate bad things that you can foresee, then you are one of the bad things.
Things may not always be black and white but it is wise not to seek the protection of the grey.
But what if (as the commenter you're responding to stated) someone believes that AI will have a positive effect on humanity? Is it morally wrong for them to disagree with your view?
I personally think taking part in an industry that openly and casually argues that the insane losses being racked up are fully affordable as long as people are permanently taken out of the workforce is immoral, yes. Pan-industrial job loss is a harm.
Leaning on "I did what I thought was right for humanity" while not addressing the harms to people along the way is not moral.
Personally, I don't know if AI will be a net-positive or net-negative for mankind, but if it's negative it's overwhelmingly likely that it will be due to environmental and/or energy usage concerns. That is, we ought to limit the power consumption and force companies to work more efficiently and sustainably, rather than limiting the research itself.
Arguments as old as time that a new form of automation will put people out of jobs are just not compelling to me, I'm sorry. I also don't believe it's likely that LLMs will ever be ASI, nor ever evil and sentient.
> Arguments as old as time that a new form of automation will put people out of jobs are just not compelling to me, I'm sorry. I also don't believe it's likely that LLMs will ever be ASI, nor ever evil and sentient.
I didn't make either of these arguments.
I was literally talking about what "bad" means, contextually, in the context of a job, responding to the idea that most people just don't see "good/bad" issues in their jobs. When almost all of us do, in fact, see harms we should reduce. Just often smaller harms.
One of the problems in the tech industry is that people always say "well sure, but…" and then try to expand the scenario to an amoral Thanos-level so they can wriggle off what might actually in many cases be much more personal, contextually obvious hooks.
"It happens, I shouldn't worry about my part in it" is not a moral framework.
cogman10 · · focus · HN ↗
Life isn't black and white with "good/bad". Further, there's no objective measure of what is good or bad. Everything is a shade of gray.
You certainly could argue that some actions are absolutely good or absolutely bad, but those aren't the majority of actions people take on a day to day basis. People aren't often faced with "should I kill this person" or "should I publish the cure for cancer". Instead it's "should I eat a hamburger or a salad" or "Should I finish this jira case or that jira case".
For example, you could argue that anyone working in an automotive plant is doing something bad because they are helping to produce vehicles which burn fuel which perpetuates climate change. But those plants also often produce parts for farm equipment or vehicles used to transport necessities like food.
People working at AI companies can make similar personal calculations. Like yeah there are bad things happening because of AI, but also they can believe that there are good things that can come as a result such as research and product developments.
dofm · · focus · HN ↗
But there are several workable contextual definitions of bad; it’s your job to know what they are.
For example:
- it would cause a harm to someone who was not made aware of the risk up front.
- it would cause someone to lose a job they didn’t know was under threat.
- the way the harm occurs precludes its only corrective/curative action or has no adequate compensation.
Bad things are almost always contextual but also almost always obvious in that context.
You can’t avoid bad things that you can’t foresee. If you do not attempt to avoid, avert or mitigate bad things that you can foresee, then you are one of the bad things.
Things may not always be black and white but it is wise not to seek the protection of the grey.
wavemode · · focus · HN ↗
dofm · · focus · HN ↗
Leaning on "I did what I thought was right for humanity" while not addressing the harms to people along the way is not moral.
Other people can draw their own conclusions.
wavemode · · focus · HN ↗
Arguments as old as time that a new form of automation will put people out of jobs are just not compelling to me, I'm sorry. I also don't believe it's likely that LLMs will ever be ASI, nor ever evil and sentient.
dofm · · focus · HN ↗
I didn't make either of these arguments.
I was literally talking about what "bad" means, contextually, in the context of a job, responding to the idea that most people just don't see "good/bad" issues in their jobs. When almost all of us do, in fact, see harms we should reduce. Just often smaller harms.
One of the problems in the tech industry is that people always say "well sure, but…" and then try to expand the scenario to an amoral Thanos-level so they can wriggle off what might actually in many cases be much more personal, contextually obvious hooks.
"It happens, I shouldn't worry about my part in it" is not a moral framework.