> Indeed, the chatbot is less real than the character, because the character is the product of another mind, while the chatbot's words are the product of complex mathematical operations conducted over a massive database of all the words humans have uttered, arranged by their frequency in relation to one another.
How is a fictional character the product of someone's mind, but a character generated from a massive database of words from other people's minds is not?
Believing a specific architecture is not capable of consciousness is a different matter. I am seeing statements that simply state things like "it is software or a machine and therefore cannot be conscious" without any further clarification. That clearly betrays a belief in souls.
And I am sure that lolakutty will momentarily bestow the world with a consciousness test, solving a problem that has eluded millions of top thinking man hours over millennia of trying...
However, I feel rather certain, that deep down the proposed test will just be another "is it chemical goo?"
The test can only be done on oneself, and not on others. So I know I am conscious, and I am made up of a brain, among other things. So I know for a fact that this set of things that I am comprised of, can generate consciousness.
But then you are stuck being the only conscious entity...
To extended anywhere beyond the firm ground of "I know I am conscious", you need to step onto the progressively shaky ground of assumptions, which just amounts to "tests of consciousness"
i.e. I have a chemical goo brain that is conscious, therefore other chemical goo brains are conscious...
It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That knowledge is no help in determining the consciousness of anything besides yourself.
>Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that.
Then circling back to your original comment, no architecture can include hardware that is known to be conscious, unless that architecture includes your personal brain, because lolakutty's brain is the only thing in the universe that is capable of generating consciousness...
Which is a totally meaningless statement. This is like im14andthisisdeep levels of philosophy here...the "Nothing is real therefore everything is real" kinda stoner riffing
He gave the classic "I feel" argument. The problem is I am not him. To me lolakutty and an LLM both can only present their feelings or state via external indications. Both he and an LLM can say they are conscious. Who if any of them is lying?
delichon · · focus · HN ↗
How is a fictional character the product of someone's mind, but a character generated from a massive database of words from other people's minds is not?
WarmWash · · focus · HN ↗
hardbass · · focus · HN ↗
Terr_ · · focus · HN ↗
"Why can't you just admit that you think only tree-parsers have souls!?"
hardbass · · focus · HN ↗
lolakutty · · focus · HN ↗
Problem is that we don't know any such hardware..
WarmWash · · focus · HN ↗
However, I feel rather certain, that deep down the proposed test will just be another "is it chemical goo?"
lolakutty · · focus · HN ↗
WarmWash · · focus · HN ↗
To extended anywhere beyond the firm ground of "I know I am conscious", you need to step onto the progressively shaky ground of assumptions, which just amounts to "tests of consciousness"
i.e. I have a chemical goo brain that is conscious, therefore other chemical goo brains are conscious...
It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That knowledge is no help in determining the consciousness of anything besides yourself.
lolakutty · · focus · HN ↗
That is correct.
WarmWash · · focus · HN ↗
Then circling back to your original comment, no architecture can include hardware that is known to be conscious, unless that architecture includes your personal brain, because lolakutty's brain is the only thing in the universe that is capable of generating consciousness...
Which is a totally meaningless statement. This is like im14andthisisdeep levels of philosophy here...the "Nothing is real therefore everything is real" kinda stoner riffing
lolakutty · · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
hardbass · · focus · HN ↗
lolakutty · · focus · HN ↗
hardbass · · focus · HN ↗
hardbass · · focus · HN ↗