Thread

1. user_7832 · 1789989751 · focus · HN ↗

   I... don't know how I feel about this. I mean, the concept, sure, good idea. Is it reliable? Perhaps. But... I get a "buy merch" popup the moment I open the page, and there seems to be a pro option for what seems to be a very much LLM-aided app? ...IDK, rubs off a bit wrong IMO. Just my personal opinion.

   1. aogaili · 1789995197 · focus · HN ↗

      so what if it is "very much LLM-aided app"?

      We are going to have the organic label soon on apps with this mindset..AI assisted development is evolving by the day and at the rate most apps will be built that way..

      1. n4r9 · 1789995997 · focus · HN ↗

         I'd love a label like that which tells me when an app has had thought put into it

         1. aogaili · 1789996095 · focus · HN ↗

            You can put a lot of thoughts while using LLMs.

            You are equating manual coding with more thinking, which has proven to be not the case given that it is mostly automated.

            1. alerighi · 1789999705 · focus · HN ↗

               If one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually.

               If you are an experienced programmer (not someone that did an online course and calls like this) with YEARS of experience in coding in multiple languages really, the only real limitation is the speed at which you can type on the keyboard, that is usually way faster than what the even good LLM is able to emit tokens.

               This not considering token expense: if we see at the point of view of the company, it's way cheaper an experienced programmer, that in my country costs you 4000 a month tax included, than the tokens that an LLM would use to do the same job.

               On top of that there is the environmental impact of all of this, and why they are almost making me not use my car because it's euro 5 and now there is euro 6, these AI companies are emitting tons of CO2 to do stuff that human beings can do with 1/1000 the energy that these AI companies use.

               1. aogaili · 1790017744 · focus · HN ↗

                  "if one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually."

                  I mean, have you truly tried? do others thing this is true? I'm truly astonished if that is majority experience, I think we need to get surveys on this.

                  1. krapp · 1790018240 · focus · HN ↗

                     The entire draw of coding with LLMs is that you can generate programs without knowing how to code. That's literally what "vibe coding" is. Why would it surprise you that people who do know how to code, and don't hate the process the way a lot of AI enthusiasts seem to, might not find them useful?

                     You'll find plenty of people on HN who have this experience,but they just tend to be ridiculed or told they just haven't used AI correctly or enough. Admitting you don't use LLMs for everything, or god forbid at all, is like telling Christians you don't want to be saved.

                     1. aogaili · 1790020750 · focus · HN ↗

                        Because they can easily get outcompeted by those who care about software/output and use the latest tools? might as well code in assembly and brag about it.

                        I'm not here condemning people who use or not use. We have a new tech, for anyone who have been in the field long enough, it is nothing short of magic was has been accomplished in the last few years.

                        I could turn around 10K lines of code per day (I know it's not the best measurement but it does capture size to some extent) when I was not able to pull more than a 100 LOC. Let us say that most of it work, and there are few rough edges, a senior programmer can follow the shape of the code, and understand where to tweak and where the LLM get stuck. So this is basically like having racing engine compared to running.

                        1. krapp · 1790021891 · focus · HN ↗

                           Companies get outcompeted, individual coders don't. And not everyone wants to be the Thomas Kinkade of coding, just cranking product out as fast as possible. And products that "use the latest tools" don't always "outcompete" those that don't. Most of what gets vibe coded - as demonstrated by what gets posted to Show HN - is qualitatively worse than the equivalent human-written software. It certainly isn't better, and there's no indication that velocity to market leads to market dominance.

                           To metaquote a recent thread - where is the vibe-coded replacement for Photoshop that outcompetes it? or Word? Why aren't vibe-coded games dominating Steam?

                           The speed alone doesn't translate to productivity and productivity alone doesn't translate to quality.

                           1. aogaili · 1790030693 · focus · HN ↗

                              Sorry - I really don't think you know what you are taking about.

                              1. aogaili · 1790033179 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Let me leave with something we agree on at least:

                                 "The speed alone doesn't translate to productivity and productivity alone doesn't translate to quality."

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