Thread

1. firesteelrain · 1789953037 · focus · HN ↗

   People became ambivalent. Snowden fled eventually to Russia. Some people viewed him less relevant over time as the archive merely trickled out. When he fled to Russia, he looked less like a martyr and more like a national security information leaker or spy like Robert

   A lot of what sounded extraordinary in 2013 is now baked into everyday discussion like metadata and mass surveillance. He is also available less for interviews because he is in Russia.

   Basically bigger fish to fry

   1. anonym29 · 1789954638 · focus · HN ↗

      He didn't flee to Russia. He had booked tickets to Ecuador going through Russia. The Obama administration revoked his passport, rendering him stateless and unable to leave Russia. Please do not regurgitate propaganda.

      1. firesteelrain · 1789954868 · focus · HN ↗

         He actually fled the US before the leaks became public to Hong Kong but it was a calculated risk because Hong Kong has extradition treaty with the US. So he was fleeing already.

         He could have returned to the US however he would have most certainly faced arrest. So he asked and was granted temporary asylum in Russia. If my passport is voided for whatever reason then I am returning to the US. I am still a citizen and so was he.

         But naturally he didn’t want to be arrested so by definition became a fugitive.

         1. BLKNSLVR · 1789955232 · focus · HN ↗

            > I am still a citizen and so was he.

            <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;False_equivalence" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;False_equivalence

            1. firesteelrain · 1789955340 · focus · HN ↗

               I get it I didn’t leak national security information but it doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t stateless. That’s the part I was referring to

               1. BLKNSLVR · 1789955788 · focus · HN ↗

                  That just feels like a slightly different false equivalence - and having said that, I may be making yet another version of it by saying this:

                  If a person has a &#x27;state&#x27;, but that state would immediately jail the person for treason upon their return, is that materially different to stateless?

                  That feels like the reason that many countries allow &#x27;political asylum&#x27;.

                  1. firesteelrain · 1789956398 · focus · HN ↗

                     He wasn’t stateless. Stateless means no country recognizes you as a citizen. He just faced arrest if he returned. Same as any other fugitive. People seeking asylum still have a country and citizenship. Also he wasn’t facing treason charges. He was charged under the Espionage Act and with theft of government property. There were others in similar situations that faced up to 45 months in prison and Eric Holder was willing to make a deal in 2015.

                     He basically is on self imposed exile in Russia.

                     1. BLKNSLVR · 1789957563 · focus · HN ↗

                        &gt; He just faced arrest if he returned

                        You seem to continue to minimise the seriousness of the situation.

                        1. firesteelrain · 1789959110 · focus · HN ↗

                           Oh it was very serious what he did. But it was odd he went to Hong Kong then to Russia on his was to Ecuador. It wasn’t well thought out

                           1. pydry · 1789972523 · focus · HN ↗

                              It wasn&#x27;t odd at all the list of places he could flee to was very limited because of his job.

                              It&#x27;s more odd that some people don&#x27;t give him the same benefit of the doubt they would a whistleblower from Russia or China.

                              1. firesteelrain · 1789982206 · focus · HN ↗

                                 He didn’t have to flee at all

                                 1. kelnos · 1789983284 · focus · HN ↗

                                    [delayed]

                                    1. firesteelrain · 1790006269 · focus · HN ↗

                                       Morally right to do what? Everyone keeps talking about what he leaked but he went way beyond US only.
                                    2. firesteelrain · 1790061926 · focus · HN ↗

                                       What about leaking secrets of the United States has anything to do with morals? He might as well been a foreign adversary

                                       1. pydry · 1790070176 · focus · HN ↗

                                          when the secret being leaked is that the united states is spying on its own citizens and violating the 4th amendment.

                                          i find it weird how many Russians, Chinese and Americans are weirdly protective of their own government&#x27;s oppressive behaviours in the name of patriotism.

                                          1. firesteelrain · 1790076169 · focus · HN ↗

                                             Again you are missing the point. Nothing was proven in violation of the 4th amendment. Ninth Circuit didn’t even latch on that argument nor express it. Courts agreed that the metadata collection program went beyond what was approved by the FISA courts. But he leaked a whole host of foreign spying programs that had nothing to do with Americans.
                                 2. pydry · 1789991748 · focus · HN ↗

                                    Just as some Chinese people want Ai Weiwei to rot in prison, some Russians wanted Navalny to rot in prison and some Americans wanted or still want Snowden and Assange to rot in prison.

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