JD Vance, VP of the USA, recently said that if Watergate happened today it wouldn't last a 24 hour news cycle. I don't know if his intent was to minimize the crime of the acting President ordering a break in of his opponent or if Vance was inadvertently admitting that the stuff Trump is doing is so much worse than Watergate.
The first part massively reinforced by the second. Maybe "because" is a stretch. Obama not Trump was the president when the Snowden leaks happened. Bush was president when it was going on. There was a lot of real evidence of crime there that went un-prosecuted. Crimes kept going. Extra-judicial droning of US citizens seems like a bigger deal that burglary of a psychiatrist office.
Something else to consider is that Watergate is orders of magnitude more of a scandal and has the mindshare to match compared to COINTELPRO.
Epstein was primarily a money man, but you’ll notice that this gets zero coverage. I guarantee there’s a lot of serious dirt there that will never see the light of day.
It’s almost better for the people involved if the public keeps focusing on the most outrageous aspects of the story. (And it is quite outrageous, and terrible, to be fair.)
This more than some cia/mossad front of blackmailing the powerful with horrific acts done to children.
IDK, the CIA/mossad pedophile part seems significant.
I don't think ordinary people upset at young girls being exploited for the purpose of blackmailing people are being 'naive' or something. Sure, it all pales in comparison to genocide X foreign land but people getting riled by that stuff too.
Quite a large amount of people have little empathy. Someone getting blown up somewhere else is a them problem. "I've never been blown up, they must have done something wrong to deserve it (I have heard things like this come out of peoples mouths)". Now, quite often those same people with little empathy have their own children therefore have an empathetic connection to the theoretical victim allowing them to contemplate the terror those children experienced. This allows the situation to be much more viceral to them. Also, pedophila is an act that is highly stimtized in most places in the world so the social shame and disgust phenomenon also applies.
Everyone should be incandescent with rage about that as soon as there's some evidence of it. And 100% it should be fully investigated.
Is it real? Are you being played with a lie? The further out we get the more it looks like the latter. But hey, I'll take evidence of a cover up. Not seeing anything much there either.
Maybe some real evidence will come soon? Thet can't keep dark forever, it's too big, too many people have touched it.
Moderately wild speculation: the genocide is directly related to the Epstein stuff. We know he had close ties to Mossad, and material that can blackmail the current president. All Mossad has to do is say: do this or we release the surveillance video. And they have been trying to get the USA to invade Iran for decades.
It's not that wild. It's pretty obvious he was collecting blackmail, and trump was his closest confidant, so it doesn't take "wild speculation" to come to this conclusion.
- why there are these bizarre humiliation rituals like the FBI saying beastiality will not DQ you from working for the agency (some top FBI person likely screwed up something related to mossad and were forced to humiliate their agency).
- why the UFC thing happened on the Whitehouse. That's a caricature of our culture, like if we wanted to humiliate mexico by making them have a Mariachi festival or something.
By what standards are the files "overhyped" ? Also to what hysteria do you refer? What would we experience if it was a massive pedo conspiracy of extremely rich and powerful people? Would they all just line up and turn themselves in?
"It's not in the officially released files that the government itself provided, therefore it didn't happen" is the level of 'reasoning' going on here.
That and "ordinary" prostitution and "sleeziness" aren't important plus ignoring that Epstein wasn't just a pimp, he was very much a human trafficker, in the sense that he effectively coerced women into continuing their involvement with his operation.
When the Epstein news first really broke into the mainstream in 2019/2020, there were a ton of victim testimonials that were absolutely harrowing (and pointed to much weirder and more consequential stuff than "just" sex trafficking), it's been really surreal and disheartening to see the Trump-era releases successfully trivialize and downplay it.
By the standards of "jaw dropping things we heard" for which we now know there is no evidence. Not even any leaks of suggestive circumstantial evidence. Nothing to back the awful fantasies of things done to children. Zero.
Most, if not all of the highly compensated victims were adults when they met the turd Epstein and made decisions as adults. Their claims are untested and uncorroborated but they are massively compensated. Good for them, they're getting paid but the hysteria and panic cost us all. Note how none of the massively compensated can manage to claim anything verifiable involving crimes of sleazebags still living?
Dig up his ranch, sure, why not? Would you bet on anything resembling evidence being found? On the Island? In his NY appartments? All just a massive, highly coordinated, perfectly executed cover-up? Is the govt really that good to get perfectly right, 100% no errors? Under this kind of spotlight with so many looking out for it?
It's a great distraction and there is zero doubt that plenty in washington are taking full advantage. The corruption rages across the aisles.
Everything you think you know about Epstein's crimes, ask yourself "Where is the actual evidence for that?" When you start ignoring the podcast-claims for which there is nothing at all to back it. It starts to look more mundanely awful. Than some monumental bonfire of evil previously un-imagined. He went whoring with Bill Gates who got an STD and it's there in the files trashing Bill's reputation. That was left alone in the cover-up but their pedo ring behaviour perfectly removed without the suggestion of a trace?
People think there is this big conspiracy to conceal the evidence of a grand pedo ring but they didn't protect the moron formerly known as prince andrew from the fall, he'll be well angry if he knows things about a pedo ring so that would be hugely risky. Unbelievably so. Literally.
People want to believe all the worst fabrications. You don't need it, it's bad enough without all that. There's sleaze enough with evidence to prosecute. Prosecutions, starting with Andrew and Mandelson, should happen. And also for everyone else identified by evidence.
Not so much the completely innocent, ordinary people named by Massie and Khanna who aren't in those circles and for whom it seems vanishingly unlikely had anything much to do with Epstein at all, let alone involved in these most hideous of crimes. And who they've now gone completely quiet about having pointed squarely at them and yelled "Evil!"
It's a real shame the extent to which it has polluted rational policy discussion. There's a cost. The cost is larger than you think.
Ok, so Trump continues to flout the law in order to conceal the files, and had his AG lie that there were no files, and had FBI redact the files for months, and 'accidentally' failed to release the specific files of witness testimony naming Trump in the sexual assault of a minor ... why?
Exactly the behaviour you'd expect of a convicted sex offender and best friend of a paedophile, husband to an illegal immigrant apparently trafficked by that paedophile who was not covering anything up, huh. /s
I guess you also think the early closing of Congress to prevent any vote on Hegseth and Trump's war crimes to also just be a coincidence?
Aside from everything else, Trump is a convicted rapist - it's just shocking to me that people like yourself choose to support a person like that who is entirely unrepentant.
I do not now, nor have I ever supported the corrupt crooked politician known as Donald J. Trump.
Any and all evidence of Donald Trump's crimes (for which there is a very large amount of the actually credible variety, ie not this, not Russian collusion involving pissing prostitutes in Steele files) should result in his prosecution and Jailing. I would like to see that.
Let's re-phrase that more sensibly.
Any and all evidence of politician and senior public servant criminal corruption (for which there is a very large amount of the credible variety) should result in prosecution and Jailing.
Washington corruption? No! Look over there! Epstein pedo ring!
So why was he arrested in 2008 if there was no evidence? And again in 2019? And why would he hang himself if there was no evidence against him? That's a wild conspiracy theory you have, bud.
What was he arrested for? What was the evidence for it?
Was it a pedo blackmail ring of the powerful (who are all pedos so that is universal weakness to get control) at the behest of the Mossad and CIA involving throwing children from a plane over epstein island to remove the witness testimony?
Or something that isn't quite that.
Something which is itself a crime for which there is evidence, you can assess (and a court did!), to support it and is totally believable?
By this method you can begin to weed out the bullshit. Soon you look at the mountain of bullshit that you, yourself reject on your own terms, not necessarily agreeing with me or anyone else. A mountain just by looking.
--------
"Pol Pot was actually being controlled by the scientologist-mormon conspiracy to conquer Sweden to get total herring control."
"Wow? Really? What's the evidence?"
"He killed millions! Why are you defending Pol Pot and the conspiracy?!?! You must be in league with Tom Cruise and Mitt Romney!"
(I'm not completely convinced Epstein did kill himself as you seem to be for what it's worth. There seems to be some real evidence he did, it seems like the most likely explanation but I have some doubt. Based on evidence. What I don't have is any evidence of who did it and why _IF_ it wasn't suicide. Again suicide the most likely. I have enough imagination to invent cool stories involving MI5, the cia, the mossad and the french secret service but choose not to. I've heard plenty of other people's cool stories but yeah, not how I want to consume fiction).
You haven't shown any EVIDENCE why someone who had done nothing wrong would commit suicide. Someone who has hundreds of millions to fund a legal defense, quit before even trying to win in court. You are projecting the very thing you claim against others (lack evidence).
I can't call the grandparent account a shill bot because it's against HN rules, but some people bury their heads deep in the sand because they are unwilling to face the ugly reality.
All of the evidence that I've personally seen is on the DOJ website. When you repeat "zero" and "none" over and over... where are you getting that information? It's very very definitive and I'm not sure how anyone could be so confident about something impossible like proving a negative. Do the victim statements not count for you because you've decided that they're "highly compensated" ... an assertion for which you provide no evidence?
A great distraction from what?
You can choose to dismiss the evidence that does exist because of your biases, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
What is the cost you mention that's larger than I think? You keep doing this sort of thing... throwing out these weighty statements, but they're never concrete; never backed up with anything other than your conjecture. Why should anyone listen to you?
He had deep ties with Israel and Mossad and it's very likely the dirt they have on Trump is possibly the reason we are at war with Iran and bringing the world to the brink of WW3. It's wild to call it underhyped, if anything quite the opposite. It's heavily redacted and the worst half of it hasn't even been released.
He had close ties with Mossad and Ehud Barak. The Israeli embassy specifically helped him wire up his apartment in New York with microphones and cameras to collect evidence.
And the evidence of a coverup is the heavily redacted half release of the files, all the fake theater around the release, the head of the FBI perjuring himself and lying about the files, and DoJ leadership lying and failing to act on the files.
I remember that being reported in newspapers in 2020 but did those allegations make it into "The Epstein Files"? (I have paid almost no attention since it's the most obvious limited hangout ever hung out.)
Some junky news site claimed nine, but saw eleven and thirteen more widely reported. Read some JMail but didn’t dig into the files beyond that. Sick stuff, respect to those whose jobs demand they closely follow everything.
Worth noting that nothing that could possibly be called the "The Epstein Files" was released and this is how the situation is understood by the public.
pluc · · focus · HN ↗
BLKNSLVR · · focus · HN ↗
tasty_freeze · · focus · HN ↗
BLKNSLVR · · focus · HN ↗
The first part because the second part.
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Something else to consider is that Watergate is orders of magnitude more of a scandal and has the mindshare to match compared to COINTELPRO.
Should that have been? Should it be now?
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
iamnothere · · focus · HN ↗
It’s almost better for the people involved if the public keeps focusing on the most outrageous aspects of the story. (And it is quite outrageous, and terrible, to be fair.)
joe_the_user · · focus · HN ↗
IDK, the CIA/mossad pedophile part seems significant.
I don't think ordinary people upset at young girls being exploited for the purpose of blackmailing people are being 'naive' or something. Sure, it all pales in comparison to genocide X foreign land but people getting riled by that stuff too.
pixl97 · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Is it real? Are you being played with a lie? The further out we get the more it looks like the latter. But hey, I'll take evidence of a cover up. Not seeing anything much there either.
Maybe some real evidence will come soon? Thet can't keep dark forever, it's too big, too many people have touched it.
colordrops · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Got a plausible link to back that?
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
colordrops · · focus · HN ↗
gosub100 · · focus · HN ↗
- why congress itself voted to cover it up
- why there are these bizarre humiliation rituals like the FBI saying beastiality will not DQ you from working for the agency (some top FBI person likely screwed up something related to mossad and were forced to humiliate their agency).
- why the UFC thing happened on the Whitehouse. That's a caricature of our culture, like if we wanted to humiliate mexico by making them have a Mariachi festival or something.
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Not even evidence at the standard of proof, just anything at all other than a cool sounding story.
edit: clarity
riddley · · focus · HN ↗
ParentiSoundSys · · focus · HN ↗
oefrha · · focus · HN ↗
FTFY. Almost one and the same here but gives more context.
joe_the_user · · focus · HN ↗
ParentiSoundSys · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Most, if not all of the highly compensated victims were adults when they met the turd Epstein and made decisions as adults. Their claims are untested and uncorroborated but they are massively compensated. Good for them, they're getting paid but the hysteria and panic cost us all. Note how none of the massively compensated can manage to claim anything verifiable involving crimes of sleazebags still living?
Dig up his ranch, sure, why not? Would you bet on anything resembling evidence being found? On the Island? In his NY appartments? All just a massive, highly coordinated, perfectly executed cover-up? Is the govt really that good to get perfectly right, 100% no errors? Under this kind of spotlight with so many looking out for it?
It's a great distraction and there is zero doubt that plenty in washington are taking full advantage. The corruption rages across the aisles.
Everything you think you know about Epstein's crimes, ask yourself "Where is the actual evidence for that?" When you start ignoring the podcast-claims for which there is nothing at all to back it. It starts to look more mundanely awful. Than some monumental bonfire of evil previously un-imagined. He went whoring with Bill Gates who got an STD and it's there in the files trashing Bill's reputation. That was left alone in the cover-up but their pedo ring behaviour perfectly removed without the suggestion of a trace?
People think there is this big conspiracy to conceal the evidence of a grand pedo ring but they didn't protect the moron formerly known as prince andrew from the fall, he'll be well angry if he knows things about a pedo ring so that would be hugely risky. Unbelievably so. Literally.
People want to believe all the worst fabrications. You don't need it, it's bad enough without all that. There's sleaze enough with evidence to prosecute. Prosecutions, starting with Andrew and Mandelson, should happen. And also for everyone else identified by evidence.
Not so much the completely innocent, ordinary people named by Massie and Khanna who aren't in those circles and for whom it seems vanishingly unlikely had anything much to do with Epstein at all, let alone involved in these most hideous of crimes. And who they've now gone completely quiet about having pointed squarely at them and yelled "Evil!"
It's a real shame the extent to which it has polluted rational policy discussion. There's a cost. The cost is larger than you think.
ShadowOfThePit · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
pbhjpbhj · · focus · HN ↗
Exactly the behaviour you'd expect of a convicted sex offender and best friend of a paedophile, husband to an illegal immigrant apparently trafficked by that paedophile who was not covering anything up, huh. /s
I guess you also think the early closing of Congress to prevent any vote on Hegseth and Trump's war crimes to also just be a coincidence?
Aside from everything else, Trump is a convicted rapist - it's just shocking to me that people like yourself choose to support a person like that who is entirely unrepentant.
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Any and all evidence of Donald Trump's crimes (for which there is a very large amount of the actually credible variety, ie not this, not Russian collusion involving pissing prostitutes in Steele files) should result in his prosecution and Jailing. I would like to see that.
Let's re-phrase that more sensibly.
Any and all evidence of politician and senior public servant criminal corruption (for which there is a very large amount of the credible variety) should result in prosecution and Jailing.
Washington corruption? No! Look over there! Epstein pedo ring!
gosub100 · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
Was it a pedo blackmail ring of the powerful (who are all pedos so that is universal weakness to get control) at the behest of the Mossad and CIA involving throwing children from a plane over epstein island to remove the witness testimony?
Or something that isn't quite that.
Something which is itself a crime for which there is evidence, you can assess (and a court did!), to support it and is totally believable?
By this method you can begin to weed out the bullshit. Soon you look at the mountain of bullshit that you, yourself reject on your own terms, not necessarily agreeing with me or anyone else. A mountain just by looking.
--------
"Pol Pot was actually being controlled by the scientologist-mormon conspiracy to conquer Sweden to get total herring control."
"Wow? Really? What's the evidence?"
"He killed millions! Why are you defending Pol Pot and the conspiracy?!?! You must be in league with Tom Cruise and Mitt Romney!"
(I'm not completely convinced Epstein did kill himself as you seem to be for what it's worth. There seems to be some real evidence he did, it seems like the most likely explanation but I have some doubt. Based on evidence. What I don't have is any evidence of who did it and why _IF_ it wasn't suicide. Again suicide the most likely. I have enough imagination to invent cool stories involving MI5, the cia, the mossad and the french secret service but choose not to. I've heard plenty of other people's cool stories but yeah, not how I want to consume fiction).
gosub100 · · focus · HN ↗
colordrops · · focus · HN ↗
riddley · · focus · HN ↗
A great distraction from what?
You can choose to dismiss the evidence that does exist because of your biases, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
What is the cost you mention that's larger than I think? You keep doing this sort of thing... throwing out these weighty statements, but they're never concrete; never backed up with anything other than your conjecture. Why should anyone listen to you?
colordrops · · focus · HN ↗
harry8 · · focus · HN ↗
What evidence leads you to think Epstein ran blackmail rings on a loathsome and loathed sitting US president that led to him starting a war?
If that were true and you were looking for evidence of a cover up, what would you look for?
colordrops · · focus · HN ↗
And the evidence of a coverup is the heavily redacted half release of the files, all the fake theater around the release, the head of the FBI perjuring himself and lying about the files, and DoJ leadership lying and failing to act on the files.
Barbing · · focus · HN ↗
Age of consent is eleven in which states?
ParentiSoundSys · · focus · HN ↗
Barbing · · focus · HN ↗
marcus_holmes · · focus · HN ↗
As I understand it, the victims weren't prostitutes, but were just kids groomed into doing this.
joe_the_user · · focus · HN ↗