Thread

1. fooker · 1789929721 · focus · HN ↗

   What's the main blocker (other than the current inflated cost) for using HBM instead of DRAM as the primary memory for consumer electronics?

   1. chessgecko · 1789930440 · focus · HN ↗

      I think people might prefer the lower idle power consumption from lpddr over the better bandwidth in hbm in battery powered stuff. That said right now the price is definitely preventing us from finding out.

      1. fooker · 1789930658 · focus · HN ↗

         Idle yes, but HBM energy consumption / memory operations seems to be a bit better than DRAM.

         1. vlovich123 · 1789930837 · focus · HN ↗

            Only if you’re running at 100%. Consumers generally do not.

            1. monster_truck · 1789931758 · focus · HN ↗

               That hasn't been true since early HBM2 days, before the controllers standardized on power/voltage management and did things like leave them in P0 to ship on time

               1. vlovich123 · 1789939050 · focus · HN ↗

                  LPDDR/DDR/GDDR generally still win over HBM when there’s no data being transferred. HBM is primarily better in watts/byte transferred. Consumer electronics spend most of their time idle.

                  1. Zagitta · 1789940656 · focus · HN ↗

                     Racing to idle is a very common power optimization technique

                     1. vlovich123 · 1789942734 · focus · HN ↗

                        Right, but HBM idle is significantly worse than LPDDR idle or even DDR idle for that matter. That matters a lot precisely because the device is idle most of the time. Your idle power draw dominates.

                        1. monster_truck · 1789967041 · focus · HN ↗

                           Comparing HBM to LPDDR is pretty silly. That's like a bath tub vs a urinal

                           1. vlovich123 · 1790001604 · focus · HN ↗

                              This is literally a thread where people are saying “but why laptops no HBM”. It’s a perfectly cromulent response that meets the question where it is. It might be mildly a more defensible question for normal plugged in desktops but that would require a massive ecosystem change since people who build those traditionally really like their DIMMs and less buying a CPU that has non-swappable RAM built in, not to mention there’s no sustainable market for the higher cost and low volume product.

                              1. monster_truck · 1790271970 · focus · HN ↗

                                 No, it really isn't. You're barking up the wrong trees for incorrect reasons

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