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US Revokes Limits on Power Plants' Climate Pollution

261 points · 266 comments · DeepLogin

  1. rayiner · · focus · HN ↗
    I don't see the point of trying to redefine "pollution" to include CO2. We have been discussing climate change for decades, but it was only recently that people tried to shoehorn CO2 into category of "pollution." It just takes a category where society has some consensus and then shoehorns some new disputed idea into existing category. It's an end-run around the process of building consensus around the new thing.
    1. watwut · · focus · HN ↗
      This is ridiculous. There is no redefinition, it was always part of definition. Seriously. The only end run around consensus are lies like "CO2 as polution is a novel thing".
      1. rayiner · · focus · HN ↗
        > There is no redefinition, it was always part of definition.

        Source?

        1. wyre · · focus · HN ↗
          You need a source showing you that greenhouses gasses aren't pollution?

          The thing that is also known as "air pollution"?

          I want to tell you to stop being a moron, but its against this site's TOS.

          1. rayiner · · focus · HN ↗
            In the 1990 IPCC report it talks about “greenhouse gasses” and also about “air pollution” but treats those as two distinct things: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ipcc.ch&#x2F;site&#x2F;assets&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;05&#x2F;ipcc_90_92_assessments_far_full_report.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ipcc.ch&#x2F;site&#x2F;assets&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;05&#x2F;ipcc_90_92_a.... For example, on page 97, it says “CO2 enrichment” may “enhance plant growth,” but that “enhanced levels of air pollution could also reduce this positive effect.” There’s it’s clearly talking about CO2 and air pollution as two different things that have opposite effects on plant growth.

            Is the IPCC also “morons?”

            1. wyre · · focus · HN ↗
              Do you have zero critical thinking skills?

              CO2 can be pollution while still allowing plants to grow, plants use CO2 in their growth cycle, if you didn&#x27;t know, they don&#x27;t use other greenhouse gases to grow.

              Page 9 lists CO2 as the first item in a list of greenhouse gases. I don&#x27;t want to spend all day read this 37 year old report.

              In what world are greenhouse gases not air pollutants?

              1. xyzzyz · · focus · HN ↗
                In a world as of a couple years ago, when nobody called CO2 “air pollutant”.
                1. watwut · · focus · HN ↗
                  But that is a lie. CO2 was air polutant 30 years ago 20 years ago and basically forever.

                  It is only in the post-truth society of right wing anti-climate influencers that apparently someone tries to redefine the terms to exclude it.

                  1. rayiner · · focus · HN ↗
                    If it was always this way, explain why the IPCC&#x27;s seminal report on climate change uses the phrases &quot;CO2 enrichment&quot; (rising CO2 levels) and &quot;air pollution&quot; as if they&#x27;re two different categories?

                    &gt; 2.2.4 Consequences of CO2 enrichment and climate change for natural terrestrial ecosystems could be modified by other environmental factors, both natural and man induced (e.g. by air pollution).

                    Help me parse this according to your understanding that &quot;CO2 was an air pollutant 30 years ago.&quot; If CO2 is a subcategory of &quot;air pollution,&quot; then it makes no sense to list &quot;air pollution&quot; as an example of &quot;other environmental factors.&quot; It wouldn&#x27;t be grammatical. The report uses this basic sentence structure, referring to &quot;CO2 enrichment&quot; as one thing in distinction to &quot;other environmental factors&quot; including &quot;air pollution&quot; several times. Explain to me how that&#x27;s consistent with your position?

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