Thread

1. grahar64 · 1789882469 · focus · HN ↗

   In NZ there are BYDs everywhere. Why are they not in US yet?

   1. hdgvhicv · 1789882543 · focus · HN ↗

      Freedom

      1. usrnm · 1789882758 · focus · HN ↗

         Didn't Americans send all their freedom to Iran?

         1. burner420042 · 1789883057 · focus · HN ↗

            You mean the state of Iran?
         2. bestouff · 1789883228 · focus · HN ↗

            So now Iran with their freedom ?

            1. 6510 · 1789890409 · focus · HN ↗

               yes, diesel is 1 cent per liter. For $50 can drive the whole month non stop.
         3. Ylpertnodi · 1789885038 · focus · HN ↗

            Yes, and now they're running out.
      2. red75prime · 1789884156 · focus · HN ↗

         Freedom from those pesky car manufacturers that demand protection of domestic workforce?
   2. 3848485858 · 1789883483 · focus · HN ↗

      just destroy your industrial base and become fully dependent on china bro

      1. Boss0565 · 1789884606 · focus · HN ↗

         The average American's longest-kept car is 8 years old. Therefore every eight years or so, Americans are forced to spend a significant amount of money on a car. The median price of a new car in the United States is ~$41,000. If we generously claim that a Chinese car with the same capabilities could be purchased for minimum $30,000 instead, then the number of money being lost to being forced to purchase a more expensive car, every eight years, is 11,000*350 million, or ~3.8 trillion dollars. Dividing per year, we get roughly 480 billion dollars per year that could be spent by Americans.

         I'm not an economist nor a mathematician, so I will not claim that this is a good expression of the economic impact of these restrictions. But I will say that the average American does not care about which country his or her car originates from. They care about navigating our crumbling infrastructure through the only means possible, the car. We have no reliable public transport in 99% of this country nor alternative modes of transport. We are forced to buy cars.

         It seems unfair to me that the average American, who is making less and less per year after we adjust for inflation and purchasing power, should be forced to carry the burden of a technologically backwards industry that is still pumping out millions of gas-powered vehicles, which are not only bad for the environment, but are even more expensive to operate compared to the cost of electric cars per mile.

         Our country does not think ahead, all of our decisions just temporarily patch our longstanding issues. America is screwed.

         1. Haven880 · 1789885811 · focus · HN ↗

            America voted for it.

            1. Boss0565 · 1789886755 · focus · HN ↗

               Yes America is a pure democracy and we have complete freedom of choice
         2. Incipient · 1789888141 · focus · HN ↗

            I don't think tbis quite holds - money being spent on domestically produced vehicles should be going to working families, so the money stays and is spent again in the country. Now if most of that money just goes to the mega rich, then it's fairly pointless.

            But it's definitely more complex than just money saved = money spent elsewhere

            1. Boss0565 · 1789899674 · focus · HN ↗

               I agree with this. It certainly is more complex than just that. Only yesterday was I thinking about this topic, as I was walking around Osaka and looking at the cars over there. I would like to see an actual study on this question.
         3. stasomatic · 1789912406 · focus · HN ↗

            How do you feel about offshoring IT work to countries with much lower cost of living?

            1. Boss0565 · 1789925989 · focus · HN ↗

               Feels inevitable
      2. maxglute · 1789914752 · focus · HN ↗

         What industrial base, most countries don't have competitive domestic auto and has the option of not being ripped off by western brans. For countries with domestic auto... this 2026, the that auto plant isn't building modern tanks and planes. Maybe you can retrain workers to make drones... or coffins and urns.
   3. pantalaimon · 1789883538 · focus · HN ↗

      Same reason they are not in EU, tarrifs.

      1. SapporoChris · 1789883922 · focus · HN ↗

         "BYD faces a 17% tariff on imported electric vehicles in EU, in addition to the standard 10% base rate."

         "BYD has sold 19,241 fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles in Europe last month, a 255% soar from the same period a year ago."

         Small numbers, but I am pretty sure they&#x27;re in Europe. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eletric-vehicles.com&#x2F;byd&#x2F;byd-sales-in-europe-more-than-triple-year-over-year-in-november&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eletric-vehicles.com&#x2F;byd&#x2F;byd-sales-in-europe-more-th...

         Edited: Tariffs vary across Europe, particularly in non EU nations.

         1. unglaublich · 1789884932 · focus · HN ↗

            It’s so annoying that the EU is artificially hampering EV adoption to protect their outdated fossil fuel car manufacturers.

            1. tpm · 1789889073 · focus · HN ↗

               There are also fleet emmission fines for ICEs so it&#x27;s not so bad (and very expensive fuel too). Otoh you need buy-in from the population, so making domestic EVs more attractive than foreign ones is one of the better ways to do that.
         2. NorwegianDude · 1789885127 · focus · HN ↗

            There is no fixed tariff in Europe like you are quoting. It varies.

            1. SapporoChris · 1789885694 · focus · HN ↗

               Apologies, I was looking at European Union. I see Norway is not imposing tariffs and there may be variance in other non EU countries as well. Thank you for pointing out the issue.
         3. DivingForGold · 1789901331 · focus · HN ↗

            Detroit will be laughing when a &quot;worldwide economy hiccup&quot; occurs and BYD starts abandoning any service-warrantee centers all across Europe. No parts, no service, send it to the scrap yard.
      2. tzs · 1789884118 · focus · HN ↗

         They are in the EU. The tariff is 27% so they aren&#x27;t as numerous as they would be without it but there are still plenty.

         There will probably be a lot more starting next year since they are building a factory in the EU which is scheduled to start production at the end of this year. That bypasses tariffs.

      3. Ylpertnodi · 1789884822 · focus · HN ↗

         I see many in my part of the eu.
      4. mhw11 · 1789885497 · focus · HN ↗

         Tariffs can’t stop “technology” and “manufacturing.”
   4. wpm · 1789883607 · focus · HN ↗

      Regulatory capture, legalized bribery whoops I mean political donations, and protectionism. Gotta let Detroit keep making crappy bro-dozers that get 15MPG.
   5. tancop · 1789883677 · focus · HN ↗

      Because American auto makers convinced the government that BYD is price dumping in every market segment at the same time and somehow staying profitable.

      1. shuwix · 1789884639 · focus · HN ↗

         [dead]

      2. joinHNtheysaid · 1789888072 · focus · HN ↗

         [dead]

      3. legitster · 1789888231 · focus · HN ↗

         But I mean, they are.

         The Chinese government is effectively giving all manufacturers 0% financing and raw materials at cost.

         And even still, BYD executives have come out and said their pricing is not sustainable. The Chinese market is engaging in a massive price war and BYD&#x27;s strategy is to entrench themselves in new markets with &quot;aggressive&quot; introductory pricing campaigns.

         1. Taniwha · 1789892875 · focus · HN ↗

            So essentially the same thing the AI companies are doing

            1. surgical_fire · 1789898328 · focus · HN ↗

               When Chinese companies do it, then it is evil price dumping.

               When US companies do it, then it is just good business strategy, investing in growth for future profits.

               1. pfisherman · 1789903164 · focus · HN ↗

                  Do US companies have free access to Chinese markets?

                  1. surgical_fire · 1789905674 · focus · HN ↗

                     I love this sort of reply.

                     Yes, the bastion of free market capitalism is no much different than the evil communist countries.

                     1. pfisherman · 1789917750 · focus · HN ↗

                        One mechanism by which the US encourages free market capitalism is requiring reciprocity. China is not evil - they are just self interested - and it is the responsibility of the US government to negotiate a trade agreement that benefits its citizens.

                        1. surgical_fire · 1789918269 · focus · HN ↗

                           &gt; US

                           &gt; reciprocity

                           Funny joke. Everybody laughs. Curtains.

                     2. Steltek · 1789941780 · focus · HN ↗

                        China has an awful lot of billionaires for a communist country.

                        Neither appellation is true and probably never was.

                  2. maxglute · 1789914400 · focus · HN ↗

                     More than vice versa.
         2. bryanlarsen · 1789902702 · focus · HN ↗

            The Europeans did a survey and pegged the value of BYD&#x27;s government support at 17%. I trust that number as an upper limit because the European government would have had lots of incentive to be thorough and to err on the side of over estimating.
      4. xethos · 1789888286 · focus · HN ↗

         Not to say you&#x27;re wrong, but BYD could still be price dumping in several markets, while being quietly propped up by the Chinese government. I&#x27;m not convinced that&#x27;s the case, but it&#x27;s still possible.

         The kind of corporate-socialism that would allow a government to dump cash into an otherwise uncompetitive domestic automotive manufacturer to keep it afloat though, is more an American thing. If American auto manufacturers are right, and BYD is receiving government help, the hypocrisy would be nearly unbelievable

      5. JKCalhoun · 1789904467 · focus · HN ↗

         I saw a print ad for a brand new Toyota Corolla back in 1974—something like $2500 or so. Running the inflation numbers: where are the $17K cars today? Why is the average US new car $50K now.

         To be sure, I know there are a lot more regulations on car manufacturers now, and tech in the cars, but come on!

         Querying Claude: &quot;Manufacturers have responded by prioritizing profit, concentrating inventory at higher price points…&quot;, &quot;2026 is the first year in the U.S. with no new car priced under $20,000.&quot;

         Cars in the US are the ultimate regressive tax. The blue-collar worker that needs a car to get to work, the guy that mows lawns for a living, the maids… Sure, used cars are a thing (my first car in my 1984 was in fact a Datsun B-210 that I paid $400 for). But I think everyone has noticed that used car prices are through the roof as well.

         The Japanese came in and handed the US car manufacturers their asses in the 70&#x27;s. We might need something like that again.

         1. ponector · 1789905058 · focus · HN ↗

            New Corola is advertised at $25k. Fair price considering how many features you get vs 1974 car.

            1. 4d4m · 1789912778 · focus · HN ↗

               What a hot dump for 25k. The current corolla in all its glory and odd mix of old and new technologies should be a 15k otd car, but instead its seen as a value at 25k and will provide years of boring value for a barely attentive driver.

               1. ponector · 1789920252 · focus · HN ↗

                  And 1974 Corolla for $2500 was the same, I guess.

                  GR Corolla is much better and faster than any supercars of 1970s. Compare price of it with original Countach!

                  1. 4d4m · 1789999100 · focus · HN ↗

                     GR corolla actually pretty cool I was wrong as a hot hatch it&#x27;s super quick
            2. preg_match · 1789929923 · focus · HN ↗

               The effects of efficiency gains and inflation should eat most of the cost of those new features, I presume. I mean, computerization makes a lot of things easier and cheaper, and computers are very cheap now.
            3. numpad0 · 1789950994 · focus · HN ↗

               Base Corolla is starting at JPY2,380,400, or USD15,166.61 in Japan, btw. So it is a $15k car.

               Isn&#x27;t it just USD&#x2F;EUR underselling itself? Basically it&#x27;s full $10k cheaper if you agree to not take it out of Japan. Take home is $10k extra. No?

               1. ponector · 1789981949 · focus · HN ↗

                  Historically, base model for the US market had more features than base European trim. I guess the same applies for Japan. Also taxes are different, obviously.
               2. HDThoreaun · 1790360720 · focus · HN ↗

                  American base corolla is built in mississippi with labor making around 3x what japanese toyota factory workers make.
   6. jpollock · 1789884223 · focus · HN ↗

      Tariffs, the tariff on Chinese vehicles is 100%.

      1. Haven880 · 1789885710 · focus · HN ↗

         America now bans Chinese stuff. Some Chinese carmakers are explicitly banned in USA.
      2. burnt-resistor · 1789888249 · focus · HN ↗

         Also, every car manufacturer has to go through crash testing and homologation in order to sell cars directly to US consumers. And, without a parts supply chain, maintaining a car becomes very difficult. So even paying 200-300% over the sale price with third-party homologation makes private importation expensive, painful, and slow.
   7. ballon_monkey · 1789884367 · focus · HN ↗

      No they arent? See BYD for sure, but see most other brands more often still.
   8. marsven_422 · 1789885068 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

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