Thread

1. wps · 1789760710 · focus · HN ↗

   The amount of roadblocks Google is putting up for GrapheneOS is just ridiculous. None of their decisions make any sense, from the delayed source patches upstream, to the embargos, attestation issues, etc. Google simply regrets android being open source.

   1. 7734128 · 1789761296 · focus · HN ↗

      It's not a regret. Android would never have been popular in the first place if it had not been open source. If phone makers had been able to anticipate how much the demons at Google would be able to lock down the Android then they would never had used the OS back in ~2009.

      1. mrpippy · 1789761624 · focus · HN ↗

         That’s possible (never underestimate the bad decision-making of phone makers), but what would they have done instead? Windows Mobile 6 was the only licensable alternative, but it was a known quantity and obviously a generation behind Android and iOS.

         1. pmlnr · 1789761958 · focus · HN ↗

            Maemo.

            1. michaelmior · 1789762172 · focus · HN ↗

               I remember using a Maemo device circa 2009. I recall overall really liking the OS.
         2. thomasahle · 1789762364 · focus · HN ↗

            Also Bada
         3. SoftTalker · 1789763003 · focus · HN ↗

            Windows Phone was pretty nice, too bad Microsoft didn't follow their DOS and Windows strategy of getting it preinstalled on every consumer PC sold. There was really only the Nokia Lumia line that I recall, but everyone I knew who had one loved it.

            1. [deleted] · 1789764605 · focus · HN ↗

               [deleted]

            2. dpark · 1789764679 · focus · HN ↗

               Windows Phone 7 didn’t ship until 2 years after Android. 2 more years later Windows Phone 8 was released and it was a legitimate option but just too late.

               Pre-7 was just not an operating system that anyone except the geekiest of geeks wanted to use.

               1. SoftTalker · 1789766581 · focus · HN ↗

                  Yeah I guess Apple set too high a bar and MS was caught flatfooted (again) and was too far behind.

                  1. dpark · 1789769366 · focus · HN ↗

                     I don’t have visibility into what happened with that team, but Android from what I understand saw immediately that they needed to follow Apple’s lead and pivoted (originally they were building something closer to a BlackBerry). The Windows phone team either didn’t believe they need to pivot initially or they just took too long to do so.

                     Windows Phone is a case study of missed opportunity.

               2. hurfdurf · 1789805943 · focus · HN ↗

                  Not doing any OS upgrades from 7 to 8 and only very few from 8.x to 10 certainly didn't help either.
            3. hobo123 · 1789820474 · focus · HN ↗

               I remember trying phones in stores (shortly before Windows phone died). On Android you'd touch the phone and get instant reactions, on Windows you'd touch and wait for a slow woosh animation, until a few seconds later a text only app would finally launch. embarrassing.
         4. LTL_FTC · 1789763317 · focus · HN ↗

            WebOS was pretty cool (Palm). But I’m not sure if Palm would have licensed it. Lg ended up with it.
         5. edent · 1789763717 · focus · HN ↗

            Symbian and LiMo were both available at the time. It is hard to say they were good alternatives though. Windows 7 - even with the weight of Microsoft behind it - wasn't able to attract enough hardware manufacturers.
         6. cyberax · 1789765934 · focus · HN ↗

            There were several credible competitors: WebOS, Symbian, Maemo/MeeGo, Palm OS 6, and of course Windows Mobile. But they required cooperating with a single vendor and/or a lot of work to adapt.

            Android won because it was available "right now" and easy to hack. Vendors could get a BSP (Board Support Package) from a chip manufacturer, slap Android userspace on top of it, and ship a phone within half a year. It was a glorious mess for a while.

            Google then slowly tightened the reins and made the ecosystem more ordered.

            1. ezst · 1789793220 · focus · HN ↗

               Not even wearing rose tinted glasses right now, for having daily driven them back in the days, maemo and then WebOS had touch ergonomics and multitasking abilities which took Android/iOS decades to incompletely mimic. Maemo/Nokia N900's design principle seems to have been "let's provide the user with desktop-level productivity tools, and shrink the desktop into their pocket", the package was massive for the era's standards, but is tiny for today's, and those dumb-down/low density ergonomics we have now give us less capabilities for more screen estate and weight (even something like an iPod pro is a "dumb" content consumption device in comparison). WebOS on the other hand was not about "producing/delivering on the go" so much as it was about getting your digital must haves (booking an appointment, updating a contact details, moving a meeting, ...) done and out of the way with just a couple key presses and finger flips as so distract as little as possible from the present. Only some advanced Android launchers get close, but it's never the focused, well polished and distraction-free experience it was back then (and for the same reason, Android/iOS are addictive content delivery vehicules meant to sink your eyeballs and time as to sell you stuff or collect and merchandise your data).

               I'm interested and wishing to see a future mobile OS that does not pander to the "attention economy" like Android/iOS are, but with billions now addicted and trapped by it, I'm realistic that it won't be an overnight success.

               1. m4rtink · 1789804531 · focus · HN ↗

                  Sailfish OS exists as a continuation of the Maemo project, even shipped their own phone recently.

                  1. ezst · 1789805244 · focus · HN ↗

                     Yup, I would love to try it in-hands (I looked it up on emulator many years ago, and that was frankly underwhelming). I'm also not sure about their open source situation, which was the premise of this thread.

                     1. m4rtink · 1789982667 · focus · HN ↗

                        Yeah, they really did some stupid decisions initially on not open sourcing some apps int eh OS. Thankfully they are now finally reversing that decision.

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