Thread

1. carefree-bob · 1789760305 · focus · HN ↗

   There was a book in the 1970s called "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes, where he argued that ancient civilizations -- and he used examples from Homer -- lacked the current modern sense of self-consciousness. If you look at their behavior, they interact with some external divine voice that drives their actions, whereas if you read modern literature you see people being driven by an inner voice which they associate with themselves.

   This shift from the &quot;bicameral mentality&quot; of the external voice to the modern mentality of the inner voice was hypothesized by Jaynes to be rooted in some biological changes in the brain. At the time there was split brain research that showed these two parts of the brain function independently almost as two different minds in the same skull. See this 2007 survey: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.researchgate.net&#x2F;publication&#x2F;6323702_The_bicameral_mind30_years_on_A_critical_reappraisal_of_Julian_Jaynes&#x27;_hypothesis" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.researchgate.net&#x2F;publication&#x2F;6323702_The_bicamer...

   1. nkrisc · 1789764683 · focus · HN ↗

      That would imply a biological change in all humans in the last ~3000 years after humans had already dispersed across the entire globe?

      That means whatever the change was would have to had occur simultaneously in separate populations all over the world within almost no time at all.

      1. mitxela · 1789777380 · focus · HN ↗

         Not necessarily, could be a change in environment. E.g. teaching people to read by imagining a voice in their head teaches them the voice is their own.

         It&#x27;s probably BS though.

         1. nkrisc · 1789777873 · focus · HN ↗

            That’s not a biological change.

            1. mitxela · 1789781502 · focus · HN ↗

               Learning anything biologically changes your brain.

               1. rnewme · 1789785069 · focus · HN ↗

                  So basically &quot;Reflections on Trusting Trust&quot;? Children of changed society are also changed?

                  1. mitxela · 1789785437 · focus · HN ↗

                     Obviously? That&#x27;s why we all grow up addicted to tiktok now, when we didn&#x27;t 30 years ago.
               2. nkrisc · 1789814330 · focus · HN ↗

                  Writing and reading existed before the Ancient Greeks, including China and Mesoamerica.
         2. graemep · 1789838155 · focus · HN ↗

            That also implies isolated populations would not have the same sense of consciousness until they gain literacy or whatever else has that effect?

            If consciousness results from language and culture then some cultures will lack it.

      2. LargoLasskhyfv · 1790013677 · focus · HN ↗

         Something like Toxoplasma Gondii, or similar behaviour modifying parasites, spread by migrating birds?

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