Thread

1. wolframhempel · 1789739488 · focus · HN ↗

   I'm perfectly happy to believe that the United States has an awareness of itself in the abstract sense that its a complex system with emerging behaviors that are feedbackloops of itself. I'm also convinced that all mammals and most sea and air creatures have consciousness in this as well as the more general sense.

   To me, the fact that an awareness of one self exists isn't particularly stunning - what's stunning to me is that we believe it is something incredibly special and we are the only ones endowed with it.

   I think this assumption comes from the same human self confidence that decided it was the only thing "created in gods image" in the universe and so on...

   1. somenameforme · 1789742453 · focus · HN ↗

      I think it's more that humans have put a man on the Moon, whereas we're highly impressed with other animals when they are capable of doing something productive with a twig or make gestures or noises that can be reasonably interpreted as some form of simple communication.

      The point of that is that humans obviously are exceptionally special relative to absolutely everything else we know in this universe. And while consciousness and intelligence are two different concepts, it's not unreasonable to think things which are 'natural' for a human are anything but for other species.

      1. Henchman21 · 1789756132 · focus · HN ↗

         I’ve read some hubris on this site, hell probably exhibited it myself. But this? This takes the cake.

         There are many meatbags on this world that are not human, but are alive, conscious, and intelligent. Crows, dolphins, and so on are the usual suspects. But to place one’s self above all the rest of creation is absurd. We are a part of creation and it is a part of us. Seems to me that consciousness specifically is a property of all life. I am really not sure how one would think otherwise, but I would be pleased to hear the explanation?

         1. somenameforme · 1789803743 · focus · HN ↗

            Crows are one example I alluded to above. One of the 'most telling' signs of their intelligence is their ability to stab grubs with twigs. If a human demonstrated that as the peak of his cognitive ability, it would only be due to extreme mental disability. Yet when we see a bird do such a thing, we frame it as an act of brilliance. The reason the bar is set so low is because other species lack any sort of meaningful intelligence, so we find ourselves grasping at straws, or twigs as it may be, to discover it.

            Even amongst humans I'm not entirely convinced that all are conscious, in the manner that we are speaking. A rather large chunk of humans claim to have no inner dialogue, and there are those that further claim a complete inability to visualize anything. If you're not having an inner dialogue, and lack any visualization ability - what is driving one's behaviors? It's hard to see it as anything other than animalistic instinct - a philosophical zombie. [1]

            [1] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Philosophical_zombie" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Philosophical_zombie

            1. cindyllm · 1789806180 · focus · HN ↗

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