Thread

Stallman: Thousands Dead, Millions Deprived of Liberties (2001)

154 points · 106 comments · B1FF_PSUVM

iamnothere · 1789670495 · focus · HN ↗
RMS was correct, as usual. Of course he could not have predicted the additional 1 million deaths due to military action (and estimated 3.5 million more from subsequent effects) in the resulting Middle Eastern/Central Asian conflicts over the following years.
1. boxed · 1789670795 · focus · HN ↗
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  1. toyg · 1789671675 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm sorry, since when George W. Bush and Donald Trump are "Western liberals"? Western, sure - liberals, the fuck.
    UncleSlacky · 1789673041 · focus · HN ↗
    From <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism :
    "Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property, and equality before the law."
    Technically both major parties in the US are liberal parties, it's a "liberal democracy" where they both share a certain set of beliefs, though they may differ on the details. Only in the US is the word used as a slur by one party towards the other.
    toyg · 1789721817 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm European, I know this very well. And still, the absolutist/dictatorial streak in Donald Trump's philosophy of government is something that XIX century liberals would simply abhor. He doesn't believe in consent (and not just "of the governed"), he doesn't believe in individual rights beyond his own... Even just his successful legal moves to obtain full immunity is the exact opposite of "equality before the law".
    (I also disagree that the two US parties share "a certain set of beliefs". This might have been true 15 years ago, but after the Trump takeover it's becoming increasingly difficult to see any common principles between any other party and what is effectively a satrapy.)
    George W. Bush's administration already showed a streak for dictatorial rule that had nothing to do with classic liberalism; Trump took that to extremes. Classic liberalism developed in opposition to absolutist monarchies, promoting rule by parliament - Bush and Trump did the exact opposite. They are not classic liberals by any stretch.

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