Thread

Canada welcomes EU proposal to become 'associate member'

284 points · 354 comments · witweb

solox3 · 1789653067 · focus · HN ↗
> US President Donald Trump earlier called the idea "laughable" and threatened "very serious tariffs" on Europe if he considered it a "hostile act".
So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner, that they should have broken up with a long time ago.
1. etiennebausson · 1789653169 · focus · HN ↗
  I try not to take anything Trump say too seriously, but we have to remember that the USians chose him... twice.
  1. martythemaniak · 1789653237 · focus · HN ↗
    Why would you not take him seriously?
    etiennebausson · 1789653372 · focus · HN ↗
    Because he can't string together a coherent sentence?
    jacquesm · 1789653678 · focus · HN ↗
    That doesn't really matter. What matters is that he commands the most powerful (probably?) offensive force on the planet and has already shown that he is more than willing to use it to achieve his nonsense objectives.
    JTbane · 1789654511 · focus · HN ↗
    Personally, I take everything he says and does seriously. I advise non-citizens visiting to turn their social media to private and bring a burner phone to immigration checkpoints. For citizens, turning off your phone should be enough.
    ninalanyon · 1789657817 · focus · HN ↗
    I think a lot of us outside the US will go further and simply never visit the US ever again. That certainly applies to me despite having spent quite a lot of time in the US and having ex-colleagues who I regard as friends there.
    [deleted] · 1789653942 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    dofm · 1789654141 · focus · HN ↗
    It doesn't matter. L'etat, c'est Trump.
    aylmao · 1789655927 · focus · HN ↗
    He can. His charistma is a large part of why he was elected.
    Not taking him seriously already cost the Democrats two presidential terms.
    atomic_cattlepr · 1789656835 · focus · HN ↗
    > His charistma is a large part of why he was elected.
    He has the charisma of a mouldy grapefruit. It certainly wasn't his charisma.
    He was elected because he was able to convince many, many people that there are simple solutions to complex problems and that he was the only person in the world "brave" enough to implement them.
    ChrisRR · 1789656809 · focus · HN ↗
    Because we have decades of evidence to show that he's incredibly stupid?
    noir_lord · 1789659256 · focus · HN ↗
    Usually because he'll say the opposite next week (or same day at 4am on Truth Social).
    That said he is the symptom not the disease and that we absolutely should take seriously.
    Even if it doesn't come to pass the trajectory the US is on is possible enough we have to consider it.
2. Maskawanian · 1789653199 · focus · HN ↗
  Agreed, and the possibility of visa free travel to the EU, plus the removal of live/work barriers is appealing. The USA really comes off as the spurned ex that calls you drunk in the middle of the night.
  1. larodi · 1789653352 · focus · HN ↗
    is it not visa free already for most of the states anyway?
    Maskawanian · 1789653455 · focus · HN ↗
    Generally it is auto approved for Canadians, but you will soon need to do an "ETIAS travel authorization".
    brummm · 1789654868 · focus · HN ↗
    Canada actually implemented their ETA way before the EU did theirs.
    elias_t · 1789655884 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes but with that you’d be able to have a work permit as well!
3. vrganj · 1789653218 · focus · HN ↗
  "No Russian leader could stand idly by in the face of steps toward NATO membership for Ukraine. That would be a hostile act toward Russia"
  <a href="https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-future-in-nato-precarious-position-neither-putin-zelenskyy-happy-2023-7" rel="nofollow">https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-future-in-nato-prec...
  edit since I guess the timestamp isn't visible to everyone: Jul 12, 2023, 5:56 PM GMT+2
  1. Geeek · 1789653453 · focus · HN ↗
    Why in the world do these articles not have published dates on them?
    monkey_monkey · 1789653926 · focus · HN ↗
    Literally states '1 hour ago' below the author.
    pmontra · 1789653932 · focus · HN ↗
    I see "Jul 12, 2023, 5:56 PM GMT+2" right before "After this week's NATO summit in Lithuania..."
  2. chinathrow · 1789653495 · focus · HN ↗
    They're not even hiding it any more. Look who paid for one of his sons wedding...
    Tade0 · 1789653819 · focus · HN ↗
    This was such a weird gesture. Why did they need anyone to pay for the wedding and why did it have to be someone with ties to Putin?
    [deleted] · 1789655059 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
4. [deleted] · 1789653238 · focus · HN ↗
  [deleted]
5. koolba · 1789653341 · focus · HN ↗
  > So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
  I believe the terms in human relationships are coercive control and social isolation.
6. Hamuko · 1789653479 · focus · HN ↗
  Trump has already been threatening Canada and EU at various times already. Why should they assume a) this will be any different b) he'll stop if they do what he wants?
7. Roscius · 1789653482 · focus · HN ↗
  Carney has extremely strong support amongst the general public in Canada which hasn't been the case for the Canadian PM over the past 20+ years.
  158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11.
  The insults coming from the US Secretary of Defence and President are not unnoticed. They are logged and remembered.
  1. bambax · 1789654144 · focus · HN ↗
    > 158 Canadian soldiers died defending the United States at the US's request after 9/11. Canadian fighter jets helped to patrol the skies in the US at the US's request after 9/11.
    Bad idea. Canada (as well as all other nations) should let the US fight and lose its wars by itself.
    __s · 1789655583 · focus · HN ↗
    This was under Jean Chrétien who recently gave a speech: <a href="https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jean-chretien-speaks-at-911-commemoration-in-gander-nl?id=c3920955-ad2a-45c5-82d0-316baaf7e105" rel="nofollow">https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jean-chretien-...
    He supported US in Afghanistan, but refused to support war in Iraq since he didn't consider there to be sufficient evidence of WMD
  2. tsunamifury · 1789654275 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    bryanlarsen · 1789654931 · focus · HN ↗
    There is only one country that Canada needs to be secure from and they just used up most of their missiles in Iran.
    [deleted] · 1789654940 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    10294387 · 1789654971 · focus · HN ↗
    You have never been "the worlds's backstop".
    If that is so onerous, multiple EU countries should get nuclear missiles and make an EU NATO. But you don't want that. You want the dollar propped up irrationally by your military promises and you want NATO and non-NATO proxies against Russia ans China.
    The promises incidentally fail yet again in Iran, where the Saudis already make other treaties with Turkey and Pakistan.
    triceratops · 1789655009 · focus · HN ↗
    > climate change will happen (the trump administration is preparing for it more seriously than any other)
    This has to be satire surely.
    We're gonna need that sense of humor as the climate shit hits the fan.
    shimman · 1789655692 · focus · HN ↗
    I mean in a way it's true. MAGA is a death cult and they want to hasten the apocalypse, which is why MAGA is such good bed fellows with US big tech as they too also want to hasten the apocalypse.
    These people fervently believe that they will prosper once the earth is destroyed, so please trust that they will do everything in their lives to make it so.
    cindyllm · 1789665796 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    bitmasher9 · 1789655809 · focus · HN ↗
    The focus towards the north (Greenland/Canada) is one potential successful post-climate-change strategy.
    Control over the opened trade routes and natural resources as the northern oceans thaw will be a highly contested global issue, the type of issue that can lead to war.
    Of course, this is a more charitable interpretation of long term plans than might be warranted.
    tsunamifury · 1789656805 · focus · HN ↗
    Not charitable. It has been repeatedly openly stated. How much more clear could the admin be?
    jackling · 1789667412 · focus · HN ↗
    Read your original comment and disagreed, but you have changed my mind. Trump is tackling climate change response more than any other president, he's just doing it in the most psychotic way possible. Threatening sovereign nations, antagonizing Asia, etc.
    I agree that Canada and the EU should've been more responsible for their own defense. Hope going forward they are and cut out the USA as much as possible.
    tsunamifury · 1789655996 · focus · HN ↗
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Armed lifeboat is a serious climate change strategy. You and I might not like it. But we are heading down the path very seriously.
    triceratops · 1789656200 · focus · HN ↗
    > Armed lifeboat is a serious climate change strategy.
    Is deliberately sinking the ship faster so we have to board said lifeboat much sooner part of that strategy?
    > But we are heading down the path very seriously.
    Being pushed at gunpoint, more like.
    tsunamifury · 1789656544 · focus · HN ↗
    No it is a scientifically valid strategy. It contends
    1) we are past the point of no return in climate change
    2) climate change will radically change the nations of the earth and the viability of territories cause mass upheaval
    3) this is inevitable and coordination will not work as you can’t expect nations drowning to act rationally or cooperatively.
    4) prepare in any way you can as fast and aggressively as possible.
    triceratops · 1789657155 · focus · HN ↗
    > 1) we are past the point of no return in climate change
    Hmm...I wonder who did that?
    Is paying taxpayer money to shut down already approved windfarms a good way to prepare for climate change? A few extra years to prepare that "armed lifeboat" are completely unnecessary?
    [deleted] · 1789670843 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
8. jacquesm · 1789653541 · focus · HN ↗
  It's pretty much the exact same playbook that Russia used against Ukraine.
  1. Teever · 1789654775 · focus · HN ↗
    This comment[0] on HN from a while back marks the parallels between the two situations very clearly.
    It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.
    I get a sense that a feeling of learned helplessness has beset the American people and that they're not able to imagine a world of agency and action against authoritarianism.
    I don't know what can shake them out of their torpor, but I do know that the longer they take to wake up the higher the price of action will be.
    [0] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443
    [1] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201
    [deleted] · 1789655407 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    andsoitis · 1789655659 · focus · HN ↗
    > It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.
    If polls are to be believed, the majority of Americans do not, in fact, fit that description.
    buellerbueller · 1789677792 · focus · HN ↗
    If the elections are to believed, a majority of Americans don't care enough to vote against Trump.
  2. 10294387 · 1789655071 · focus · HN ↗
    Fortunately the US already fails in its first special military operation in Iran, so it cannot launch a second one in Canada to protect the English speaking population in Canada.
    jacquesm · 1789658567 · focus · HN ↗
    > cannot
    Why not?
    badc0ffee · 1789753184 · focus · HN ↗
    I say this as a Canadian who wishes nothing but failure for the US's military misadventures: Iran is a totally different situation. The inability for the US navy to effectively project power thousands of miles from the US says nothing about its ability to wage a land war close to home.
9. dofm · 1789653923 · focus · HN ↗
  Pretty much exactly this.
  A whole lot of Trump's psychology has always been "it's your fault I hurt you" for the longest time — it's a very clear undercurrent in how he treated his first wife.
  He's an abuser. And now so is the USA.
10. Lio · 1789654043 · focus · HN ↗
  As I said it in another post, what does Trump expect? His negotiations are all stick and no carrot.
  Canada is bound to look for new trade opportunities in the face of that.
  You make a deal with Trump, it's always worse than what you had previously.
  Then, no mater what you do, he breaks the deal 3 months later with some kind of implied military threat if you complain.
  All the comparisons with personal relationships here are silly. This isn't a marital split. This someone who thinks they're the only customer saying they don't want to buy something and the vendor saying fair enough, I'll sell it to someone else.
11. rdm_blackhole · 1789654621 · focus · HN ↗
  > So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
  I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act but both countries, Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship.
  Canada is free to get closer to Europe and the US is free to be displeased about it.
  Maybe it works out well for Canada or maybe it doesn't.
  > Makes it all the more obvious that USA is Canada's abusive partner
  Why anthropomorphize geopolitics?
  This is just just a big fish throwing its weight around like all big fishes do. Russia does it with its neighbors, China does it as well and India and Europe are not shy about it either.
  It's just the name of the game and its been happening since the dawn of time.
  Some states use force, others bribe or cajole but in the end they all try to influence their neighbors in a way that suits their interests especially if these neighbors are smaller in terms of population/economy/military etc...
  The fact that so many people are shocked by such news these days is because everyone drank the cool aid of the End of History and forgot that spheres of influence still exists and that the rule of law was nothing more than gentleman's agreement that could be thrown out of the window at a moment's notice without second thoughts.
  1. atomic_cattlepr · 1789656477 · focus · HN ↗
    > I don't think anyone really says it's an hostile act
    Trump does. His inner circle does. His supporters do.
    > Canada and the US will have to decide what it means for their ongoing relationship.
    Sounds like an abusive husband's version of "think of what this will do to the children."
    > Why anthropomorphize geopolitics?
    Because some people need to have complex issues explained to them in ways that are simple to understand. Particularly when it comes to issues involving Trump politics, the people who desperately need to understand these issues are those who also seem to need the issues explained to them like they are a fourth-grader.
    Hence, the replies you have been seeing.
12. randomNumber7 · 1789655074 · focus · HN ↗
  > So if Canada tries to make friends with anyone other than the US, it's a hostile act?
  If your ex starts dating your best friend directly after breakup, would you consider it a hostile act?
  1. [deleted] · 1789655526 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
  2. troyvit · 1789655661 · focus · HN ↗
    You mean the same best friend that you unilaterally groped[1], shit-talked[2], undermined[3] and tried to drag into a brawl[4]?
    [1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_crisis" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_crisis
    [2] <a href="https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-nato-policy-defense-plans-europe-america/" rel="nofollow">https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-nato-policy-def...
    [3] <a href="https://www.cadtm.org/Trump-Europe-and-the-international-neo-fascist-movement-from-ideological" rel="nofollow">https://www.cadtm.org/Trump-Europe-and-the-international-neo...
    [4] <a href="https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/31/europe/trump-lashes-out-europe-iran-war-latam-intl" rel="nofollow">https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/31/europe/trump-lashes-out-europ...
  3. buellerbueller · 1789655722 · focus · HN ↗
    >If your ex starts dating your best friend directly after breakup, would you consider it a hostile act?
    "breakup" is doing a huge amount of counterfactual sanewashing here.
  4. andrewflnr · 1789655731 · focus · HN ↗
    I might, but that wouldn't make me right or make my ex unjustified. It might just be another instance of me being an asshole.
  5. jrimbault · 1789655921 · focus · HN ↗
    Luckily states are not hormones-driven romcom protagonists.
    andrewflnr · 1789707592 · focus · HN ↗
    Instead, they're dogs. <a href="https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130817.png" rel="nofollow">https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130817.png
  6. cattenwallen · 1789655976 · focus · HN ↗
    Who is the ex and who is the best friend here? America has broken up with both Canada and EU?
  7. solox3 · 1789677469 · focus · HN ↗
    Canada and the US were not in an exclusive relationship.
13. c16 · 1789655194 · focus · HN ↗
  Sometimes the winning move is to not play at all. He's finding out what happens when people stop playing his game.
14. fluidcruft · 1789655237 · focus · HN ↗
  USA has always been very aggressive about territory and hostile to Europe in the Americas. The Canada vs UK vs EU relationship seems more interesting to me.
15. jerf · 1789655398 · focus · HN ↗
  Research the "Monroe doctrine"... by which I mean, don't just look up a one paragraph summary, spend a bit of time with it. A few pages of text at least. Ideally in a modern formulation you should encounter the term "World Island" without having directly searched for it and how the modern iteration of the Monroe doctrine is a reaction to that in a way that the original didn't have to contend with.
  I'm not doing advocacy here, I'm giving pointers on how to come to a deeper understanding of what is going on.
  It is also important to understand that the EU is directly attacking this doctrine with this proposal. You are free to agree with the EU. Again, I'm just giving something to guide people to a deeper understanding of what is going on beyond the surface level playground politics of it all. There's more going on than that.
  (Personally I would say I "disagree" with the Monroe doctrine but the sort of national/international structure I would actually want is not even remotely on the table, so... my opinion is thereby of even less import than a random other opinion drawn from "the masses" for choosing "E, none of the above" when that was not given as an option in the first place.)
  1. Angostura · 1789655771 · focus · HN ↗
    I think you've said nothing here other "Look up a good summary of the Monroe doctrine, with which I mildly disagree"
    jerf · 1789655954 · focus · HN ↗
    You elided if you want to understand what is going on more deeply, which is a rather important part.
    I say that precisely because I know that in reality most people aren't that interested. Which feel like I'm insulting people or something, but it's just the reality, we don't all have time to dig into absolutely everything all the time, and if you're not interested that's fine. But if you are, this is the best pathway to understanding this at a deeper level than the playground level.
    tsunamifury · 1789656381 · focus · HN ↗
    What arrogance.
  2. zmgsabst · 1789655937 · focus · HN ↗
    This is a direct stab at the US imperialist faction — not MAGA, who want the US to break up with the EU.
    I genuinely don’t understand this move through the lens of realpolitik: they’re mad at Trump, so they’re going to offend CFR et al who are aligned on Fortress America and neo-empire by threatening to take a critical vassal for the EU?
    Okay — but you just turned being mad at MAGA into the MIC deep state viewing you as an enemy and therefore further military alliance with any EU member unviable. All because the EU couldn’t stomach four years of crass taunts from a TV conman.
    Total MAGA victory.
  3. Roscius · 1789657208 · focus · HN ↗
    TLDR; The dollar is the global currency of record, the US became the richest country in the world, and Stalin didn't get Europe and Japan. The massive export market and global security was the payoff.
    The trade deficit and debt is in USD it's a line in the ledger that is somewhat fine and sustainable as long as the world stays on the USD as the currency of record. Countries for now are happy to keep storing their reserves in US bonds - Canada holds 600-700 billion in US debt. Japan over a trillion.
  4. maartenscholl · 1789661202 · focus · HN ↗
    Research the "Treaty of Tordesillas"... by which I mean, don't just look up a one paragraph summary, spend a bit of time with it. A few papal bulls at least. Ideally in a modern formulation you should encounter the term "Requerimiento" without having directly searched for it, and how the modern iteration of the line-of-demarcation doctrine is a reaction to that in a way the 1494 version didn't have to contend with.
    I'm not doing advocacy here, I'm giving pointers on how to come to a deeper understanding of what is going on.
    It is also important to understand that the United States is directly attacking this doctrine by just sitting there. You are free to agree with the United States. Again, I'm just giving something to guide people to a deeper understanding of what is going on beyond the surface level playground politics of it all. There's more going on than that.
    jerf · 1789662381 · focus · HN ↗
    If you're trying to sarcastically imply something, I'm not sure what it is. That is also a necessary key to understanding a certain era of history. Not the current one, though.
16. ChrisRR · 1789656720 · focus · HN ↗
  Trump lacks the introspection to realise that he's the bully at the playground that everyone is distancing themselves from.
  He somehow thinks that he's going to make the US more respected by constantly jabbing at his allies
17. rsynnott · 1789664170 · focus · HN ↗
  See Putin on Ukraine. Very much the same idea; "country near us having its own foreign policy is an attack on us!!!"

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