I mean, this is a rather fun article to read but I'm not entirely sure about the thesis.
> AI Safety Is Mostly A Sex Cult.
> I don't think these people should make policy. (1/?)
One of the learnings from things like the whole Epstein saga has been there are a lot of sex cults in the policy making world and, yes, the people making policy generally shouldn't be. But I'm not sure this article actually comes up with a good explanation of why these particular people shouldn't be making policy. People having active sex lives isn't a disqualifying trait. Being in a cult doesn't disqualify people from being in politics. It is routine and expected that fields will have a lot of similar people in them (as I recall the overlap between security researchers and the furry community is unusual too, and that is hardly more important than justifying a passing comment).
It is more routine than the article writer seems to think for all the people in a small field to know each other and get on really well.
Because they don't get enough votes to control the military. If they put a convincing pitch in for why they should then they can. Being a cult doesn't rule them out.
> You do understand what a cult is?
Pretty much any religion and a few other organisations beside. Basically people who believe something strongly. What do you think a cult is, in the sense the article is using it?
No, a cult is any closed-off fanatical group that is deemed harmful to its members and sometimes to outsiders as well. The group who launched a sarin gas attack in Tokyo's metro, Aum Shinrikyo, was a cult. The Jonestown group was a cult. Scientology is often considered a cult, though this is less widely accepted (especially since Scientology is much larger).
No one considers Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Baptism cults. There may be specific communities that are cults that claim to be parts of these churches, but that doesn't mean that "pretty much any religion is a cult".
> No one calls the Catholic Church "a cult"
> No one considers Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Baptism cults.
Speak for yourself. I was coercively and forcefully added to the Roman Catholic church when I was baptised. Attempts to record myself as removed (the 'Count Me Out' campaign) were met with familial and attempted Church pressure. I was asked to visit the church to discuss the 'impacts of my decision'. I was not recorded as leaving, and the church updated its rules so people in Ireland could no longer request to leave the church.
The ways cults control you can vary, and they don't have to involve threats or violence to be coercive control. Threatening to take away someone's community for a lack of belief is controlling.
As I said, I'm certain there are specific parts of Catholicism that do exhibit cult-like behaviors. That doesn't mean the Pope is a cult leader in the same way as Reverend Jones was.
Are you claiming that for essentially anyone in, say, Dublin, announcing that they are now an atheist would lead to their family cutting all ties to them?
Or are you just saying that family members would generally declare their deep sadness at the news, and seek to convince them that this is a wrong belief and a mistake?
The first one is what leaving a cult is like (e.g. if you leave Scientology, most family and friends will be forced by the cult to cut ties, even if they personally wouldn't want to; even more extreme cults may physically prevent you from leaving the compound or even hurt you for the attempt). The second one is just the normal human experience of having opinions and a lifestyle that is not accepted by your family; the same happens to many people if choosing a career their family doesn't approve of, or leaves a job their family considers excellent, or dates someone the family doesn't like, and many other scenarios that have nothing to do with religion.
> don't have to involve threats or violence to be coercive control. Threatening to take away someone's community for a lack of belief is controlling.
This is also without getting into how many institutions in Ireland were (and many still are) faith based, requiring you to be a member of the church to, for example, attend school.
We can agree or disagree that being shunned from your community and denied opportunity because of a belief is controlling, but it's what led to my belief the Roman Catholic Church is a cult. Though to me a lot of it was simply not being allowed to leave.
roenxi · · focus · HN ↗
> AI Safety Is Mostly A Sex Cult.
> I don't think these people should make policy. (1/?)
One of the learnings from things like the whole Epstein saga has been there are a lot of sex cults in the policy making world and, yes, the people making policy generally shouldn't be. But I'm not sure this article actually comes up with a good explanation of why these particular people shouldn't be making policy. People having active sex lives isn't a disqualifying trait. Being in a cult doesn't disqualify people from being in politics. It is routine and expected that fields will have a lot of similar people in them (as I recall the overlap between security researchers and the furry community is unusual too, and that is hardly more important than justifying a passing comment).
It is more routine than the article writer seems to think for all the people in a small field to know each other and get on really well.
delis-thumbs-7e · · focus · HN ↗
roenxi · · focus · HN ↗
> You do understand what a cult is?
Pretty much any religion and a few other organisations beside. Basically people who believe something strongly. What do you think a cult is, in the sense the article is using it?
tsimionescu · · focus · HN ↗
No one considers Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Baptism cults. There may be specific communities that are cults that claim to be parts of these churches, but that doesn't mean that "pretty much any religion is a cult".
rithdmc · · focus · HN ↗
> No one considers Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Baptism cults.
Speak for yourself. I was coercively and forcefully added to the Roman Catholic church when I was baptised. Attempts to record myself as removed (the 'Count Me Out' campaign) were met with familial and attempted Church pressure. I was asked to visit the church to discuss the 'impacts of my decision'. I was not recorded as leaving, and the church updated its rules so people in Ireland could no longer request to leave the church.
The ways cults control you can vary, and they don't have to involve threats or violence to be coercive control. Threatening to take away someone's community for a lack of belief is controlling.
tsimionescu · · focus · HN ↗
rithdmc · · focus · HN ↗
I feel like your comment here is a 'No True Catholic' style fallacy.
tsimionescu · · focus · HN ↗
Or are you just saying that family members would generally declare their deep sadness at the news, and seek to convince them that this is a wrong belief and a mistake?
The first one is what leaving a cult is like (e.g. if you leave Scientology, most family and friends will be forced by the cult to cut ties, even if they personally wouldn't want to; even more extreme cults may physically prevent you from leaving the compound or even hurt you for the attempt). The second one is just the normal human experience of having opinions and a lifestyle that is not accepted by your family; the same happens to many people if choosing a career their family doesn't approve of, or leaves a job their family considers excellent, or dates someone the family doesn't like, and many other scenarios that have nothing to do with religion.
rithdmc · · focus · HN ↗
> don't have to involve threats or violence to be coercive control. Threatening to take away someone's community for a lack of belief is controlling.
This is also without getting into how many institutions in Ireland were (and many still are) faith based, requiring you to be a member of the church to, for example, attend school.
We can agree or disagree that being shunned from your community and denied opportunity because of a belief is controlling, but it's what led to my belief the Roman Catholic Church is a cult. Though to me a lot of it was simply not being allowed to leave.