I have been to a couple of CCC events in my late teens'ish. Around 26C3.
Over all can recommend, at least as a groups. I used it to meet some online friends for the frist time. Wifi / wardriving nerds that I spend a lot of time with online.
But man, I think I have never been at a place with so many small negative experience with other people. Death by a thousand paper cuts. One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic, because I was wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh. When sitting in the cellar in the "hacking area", friends of mine and me where coding on kismet or aircrack-ng, when someone from the neighboring desk asked what we where doing. After I told him he only lifted his nose slightly and with a smug smile said "Oh, that's what you call hacking today?"
At one camp, where there even was an event on photography, someone I met almost went into a rage every time he saw a camera. Not pointed at him, just someone with a camera. Off he went to tell the camera owner about how it was last camp and his opinion ..
Everything just minor interaction. But as a whole it's just not people I want to hang around with any more.
This is very much true. I have met some if the coolest people in CCCs but also some of the worst people. I miss the atmosphere but I don't miss the selfimportant assholes everywhere.
I just wish I could get Floral Mate here, the Tschunk is not the same without it.
ETA: it was actually the Russian invasion of Ukraine that broke my perception of German people and thus CCC for me. But that's a different story.
> it was actually the Russian invasion of Ukraine that broke my perception of German people and thus CCC for me.
Wdym?
I'm German and kinda wanna know.
My personal view on the matter is that Germany should not have - in any way - participated. There was no treatment with Ukraine. The Russian invasion was unconscionable, but ultimately doesn't matter if you hadn't entered into a defense contract before the event.
From my perspective this whole thing is like someone not paying their insurance premium and then having a random assortment of insurers offer options to them. Simply because theyre geographically close.
And it's not like the massive amount of money being thrown at them is actually being appreciated either. Yes I know they're supposedly only borrowing the money, but anyone with half a brain knows that Ukraine will default as soon as the war ends, effectively wiping the slate.
I hold the same position for any other initiatives that the German politicians throw money around for outside of its own borders
We don‘t support Ukraine because we‘re very good and selfless people. We support Ukraine (still too little!) because we don‘t want the Red Army at the Rhine.
That's a fair point, but kinda moot from my perspective considering the currently polling party results.
Both the Left part and AFD are essentially just going to sell Germany out to Russia, and the remaining parties are seemingly too inept to change the trajectory.
Isn't Ukraine basically just bearing the brunt of whatever would've happened to Germany if Ukraine didn't happen to be in the way. If you think this is only about Ukraine you're wrong.
It sounds insanely entitled to just talk about "money", you know how many Ukrainians have died and suffered so you can safely sit in Germany on your nice computer and whine about money?
Looking at Bucha and all the other atrocities Russians did and saying "but what about my monies" is not a view I can relate to at all. You feel alien and inhuman to me. There is nothing to gain in us interacting at all.
Ukraine did notably send its army into Iraq, as one of its overtures towards NATO. There have been plenty of attempts from Ukraine to get closer and participate in the collective security arrangement.
Frankly unfair for a German to judge Ukraine for not being part of the western alliance, when it was largely Germany in the first place that was preventing it from joining.
Completely made up BS, as so often in those discussions.
NATO is the USA. If they actually wanted to allow Ukraine to join, they could've.
And Ukraine never even attempted to join until AFTER the invasion in 22.
And it was not Germany in particular that spoke out against the idea of Ukraine joining NATO back in 2008. Basically every member said it would unnecessarily aggrevate Russia. Blaming that on Germany is disingenuous to a stupid level.
> I hold the same position for any other initiatives that the German politicians throw money around for outside of its own borders
Before the Russian invasion in 2022 Germany imported on average US$25 billions worth of goods from Russia each year. Dominated by crude oil and natural gas.
At the time it was seen as good business, because the prices were good and German economy enjoyed the benefit of cheap energy for decades. But Putin was just waiting for the real payment and the real payment is Ukraine.
It would be unfair to blame it only on Germany, because whole Europe was importing a lot of fossil fuels from Russia and financing Russian economy and Russian army, but Germany had the biggest share and biggest hope that the invasion will be quickly over.
Most Europeans think we aren't doing nearly enough to support Ukraine, and here you are counting your pennies. Wow. One of the worst things I've read all week.
I wholeheartedly support actually finally starting proper support instead of this slow trickle.
Mashimo · · focus · HN ↗
Over all can recommend, at least as a groups. I used it to meet some online friends for the frist time. Wifi / wardriving nerds that I spend a lot of time with online.
But man, I think I have never been at a place with so many small negative experience with other people. Death by a thousand paper cuts. One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic, because I was wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh. When sitting in the cellar in the "hacking area", friends of mine and me where coding on kismet or aircrack-ng, when someone from the neighboring desk asked what we where doing. After I told him he only lifted his nose slightly and with a smug smile said "Oh, that's what you call hacking today?"
At one camp, where there even was an event on photography, someone I met almost went into a rage every time he saw a camera. Not pointed at him, just someone with a camera. Off he went to tell the camera owner about how it was last camp and his opinion ..
Everything just minor interaction. But as a whole it's just not people I want to hang around with any more.
pepperoni_pizza · · focus · HN ↗
I just wish I could get Floral Mate here, the Tschunk is not the same without it.
ETA: it was actually the Russian invasion of Ukraine that broke my perception of German people and thus CCC for me. But that's a different story.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
Wdym?
I'm German and kinda wanna know.
My personal view on the matter is that Germany should not have - in any way - participated. There was no treatment with Ukraine. The Russian invasion was unconscionable, but ultimately doesn't matter if you hadn't entered into a defense contract before the event.
From my perspective this whole thing is like someone not paying their insurance premium and then having a random assortment of insurers offer options to them. Simply because theyre geographically close.
And it's not like the massive amount of money being thrown at them is actually being appreciated either. Yes I know they're supposedly only borrowing the money, but anyone with half a brain knows that Ukraine will default as soon as the war ends, effectively wiping the slate.
I hold the same position for any other initiatives that the German politicians throw money around for outside of its own borders
pepperoni_pizza · · focus · HN ↗
I thought the Germans are people like us, but your values are entirely alien to me.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
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[deleted] · · focus · HN ↗
[deleted]
throwaway270925 · · focus · HN ↗
Merkste selber, ne?
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
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Tomte · · focus · HN ↗
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
Both the Left part and AFD are essentially just going to sell Germany out to Russia, and the remaining parties are seemingly too inept to change the trajectory.
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
Russia also has huge interference in German politics since that controls wider European politics.
bamboozled · · focus · HN ↗
It sounds insanely entitled to just talk about "money", you know how many Ukrainians have died and suffered so you can safely sit in Germany on your nice computer and whine about money?
vasco · · focus · HN ↗
Wow, if anyone was wondering how they could be on the wrong side for 3 world wars in a row, this comment helps understand.
pepperoni_pizza · · focus · HN ↗
The big irony is, Germany's dependency on Russian gas basically bankrolled the Russian invasion.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
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pepperoni_pizza · · focus · HN ↗
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
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pibaker · · focus · HN ↗
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dagenleg · · focus · HN ↗
Frankly unfair for a German to judge Ukraine for not being part of the western alliance, when it was largely Germany in the first place that was preventing it from joining.
ffsm8 · · focus · HN ↗
NATO is the USA. If they actually wanted to allow Ukraine to join, they could've.
And Ukraine never even attempted to join until AFTER the invasion in 22.
And it was not Germany in particular that spoke out against the idea of Ukraine joining NATO back in 2008. Basically every member said it would unnecessarily aggrevate Russia. Blaming that on Germany is disingenuous to a stupid level.
taskforcegemini · · focus · HN ↗
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
leonidasrup · · focus · HN ↗
Before the Russian invasion in 2022 Germany imported on average US$25 billions worth of goods from Russia each year. Dominated by crude oil and natural gas.
<a href="https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/russia" rel="nofollow">https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/imports/russia
At the time it was seen as good business, because the prices were good and German economy enjoyed the benefit of cheap energy for decades. But Putin was just waiting for the real payment and the real payment is Ukraine.
It would be unfair to blame it only on Germany, because whole Europe was importing a lot of fossil fuels from Russia and financing Russian economy and Russian army, but Germany had the biggest share and biggest hope that the invasion will be quickly over.
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/russia-ukraine-germany-under-pressure-to-back-eu-military-training-mission-in-ukraine" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/russia-ukraine...
distances · · focus · HN ↗
I wholeheartedly support actually finally starting proper support instead of this slow trickle.