I have been to a couple of CCC events in my late teens'ish. Around 26C3.
Over all can recommend, at least as a groups. I used it to meet some online friends for the frist time. Wifi / wardriving nerds that I spend a lot of time with online.
But man, I think I have never been at a place with so many small negative experience with other people. Death by a thousand paper cuts. One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic, because I was wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh. When sitting in the cellar in the "hacking area", friends of mine and me where coding on kismet or aircrack-ng, when someone from the neighboring desk asked what we where doing. After I told him he only lifted his nose slightly and with a smug smile said "Oh, that's what you call hacking today?"
At one camp, where there even was an event on photography, someone I met almost went into a rage every time he saw a camera. Not pointed at him, just someone with a camera. Off he went to tell the camera owner about how it was last camp and his opinion ..
Everything just minor interaction. But as a whole it's just not people I want to hang around with any more.
I’ve been a hacker since the Cap’n Crunch days, I’ve been involved with many hackerspaces around the world, used to sit at the pay phones in Union Station waiting for distant calls, some forgotten first Friday of the month .. and all I can say, anecdotally, is that this death by a thousand cuts is par for the course.
Hacker culture has been co-opted by a broad spectrum of folks - and a big part of the value of CCC is navigating that spectrum.
I’ve met plenty of folks that are annoying as fuck in this scene - but I’ve also met plenty of folks who are just great.
As for the camera thing - Germans have an aversion to being held accountable for their actions in public. It is a deep-seated fear of consequences born from a culture that literally thought it was acceptable, not so long ago, to spy on ones neighbors. They cram themselves into boxes upon boxes and live on top of 2000 other people they want nothing to do with. Just remind them, public photography is not a crime, and that there is no right to privacy in the public sphere, and why don’t they just smile and enjoy the fact that they are frozen in time on some strangers device, just like a strangers memory they have no right to erase. This is the needed context.
> Just remind them, public photography is not a crime
Photographing at CCC events (Congress and Camp) is permitted only if you get permission from all the people depicted on the photo. Yes, this makes wide shots of crowds effectively impossible to take there without breaking the event's rules. Everyone present there has agreed to that rule by coming there, so it's not unreasonable to expect them not to break it even if it's not a crime.
The entitlement of "I can photograph whatever I want"-people is unmatched, which is nicely demonstrated by this thread. Disrespectful, entitled and self-scentered.... individuals.
There is a fine line, I agree - but I prefer to ask for forgiveness than permission when taking photo’s in public.
A society which censors the public sphere, endangers the public.
It’s a double-edged sword, and photography - like many technologies - can be weaponized against the individual; but it can also be used to gain justice against the crimes of the state.
The disrespect, entitlement and self-centered posturing goes both ways though, though.
“No, sorry, I wasn’t taking a picture of you, I was taking a picture of that cute dog - you just happened to be in the background, and I wouldn’t have anything to do with you if you weren’t so paranoid and self-centered…”
Public photography is a right which needs to be protected - by the public.
Just ask Rodney King. Or, you know, the children of Gaza. If you don’t know what either of those have to do with this discussion, you probably haven’t seen the photos…
You have no respect for the culture of the place and people you're interacting with.
"Use public data, protect private data" has been one of the main reasons in the CCC since the 80s, at the same time German Law and culture is different when it comes to taking pictures than what you seem used to. Maybe familiarize yourself with it before you break the law and claim everybody else is wrong.
I have a great deal of respect for German culture - this is why I live in a DACH state in the first place.
CCC is a private event and I absolutely concur that their policies are acceptable in that circumstance.
> German Law and culture is different when it comes to taking pictures than what you seem used to
No, in fact, I am quite familiar with the law - to the extent that I am prepared to defend my position.
One thing I don’t respect, is the German proclivity to repress the public sphere. You will never beat that out of me - I have seen the positive results of public photography deliver justice in plenty of cultures where it was desperately needed.
It is perfectly fine for me to take whatever pictures I want in the public sphere - as long as I respect others’ rights and wishes to not be the subject of that photography.
No, I haven't "seen the photos", literally, since I am blind. Which is also why "asking for forgiveness" wouldn't work with me, because, you know, I wouldn't even notice if you didn't ask for permission. Which nicely demonstrates that you are faaaar more entitled then you might be willing to admit. Also, there are differences from country to country when it comes to laws. And what constitutes public spaces. And so on, and so forth. But IANAL, so I am not willing to enter a back-and-forth with you. Just know that your attitude isn't universally accepted as OK.
You are projecting and don’t seem to know the law. I do, having taken thousands of great photo’s all over Germany.
Do you want to live in a free and open society or not?
The fact is, the general public having the ability to take photo’s of the scene in front of them - idyllic or horrific - is essential to the continued operation of our society.
Familiar with the Rodney King case, by any chance?
C3 is not a public event. Neither are night clubs which decide to ban photography entirely. Taking photos is a right in the public sphere, a privilege in the private sphere.
As a German I find it interesting that foreigners think that this is a cultural thing.
It is not. It's the law.
In Germany you are not allowed to photograph people without their written and signed consent. Any conference or event counts as a private event when it is organized on private property. If it's not a building or space owned by the city, it is private property. This includes e.g. swimming pools owned by the Stadtwerke (there have been lawsuits because of that, all decisions in favor of privacy).
For example, even cameras that protect your property by filming the outside area are not permitted to film the street, and they have to be arranged to point towards your own property. That's why even banks have cameras always on the corners of the building, pointing back to their own property.
Again, it's the law. It's pretty strict about this sort of thing, especially because of WW2 and post WW2 times, where a lot of people died because of Stasi misinformation or Zerstörungstaktik related things.
Source: was a helper and organizer of a lot of CCC events before 2021.
GDPR/DSGVO means you have to get written consent by all visitors, otherwise you cannot make photos of the event and publish them.
Mashimo · · focus · HN ↗
Over all can recommend, at least as a groups. I used it to meet some online friends for the frist time. Wifi / wardriving nerds that I spend a lot of time with online.
But man, I think I have never been at a place with so many small negative experience with other people. Death by a thousand paper cuts. One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic, because I was wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh. When sitting in the cellar in the "hacking area", friends of mine and me where coding on kismet or aircrack-ng, when someone from the neighboring desk asked what we where doing. After I told him he only lifted his nose slightly and with a smug smile said "Oh, that's what you call hacking today?"
At one camp, where there even was an event on photography, someone I met almost went into a rage every time he saw a camera. Not pointed at him, just someone with a camera. Off he went to tell the camera owner about how it was last camp and his opinion ..
Everything just minor interaction. But as a whole it's just not people I want to hang around with any more.
MomsAVoxell · · focus · HN ↗
Hacker culture has been co-opted by a broad spectrum of folks - and a big part of the value of CCC is navigating that spectrum.
I’ve met plenty of folks that are annoying as fuck in this scene - but I’ve also met plenty of folks who are just great.
As for the camera thing - Germans have an aversion to being held accountable for their actions in public. It is a deep-seated fear of consequences born from a culture that literally thought it was acceptable, not so long ago, to spy on ones neighbors. They cram themselves into boxes upon boxes and live on top of 2000 other people they want nothing to do with. Just remind them, public photography is not a crime, and that there is no right to privacy in the public sphere, and why don’t they just smile and enjoy the fact that they are frozen in time on some strangers device, just like a strangers memory they have no right to erase. This is the needed context.
seba_dos1 · · focus · HN ↗
Photographing at CCC events (Congress and Camp) is permitted only if you get permission from all the people depicted on the photo. Yes, this makes wide shots of crowds effectively impossible to take there without breaking the event's rules. Everyone present there has agreed to that rule by coming there, so it's not unreasonable to expect them not to break it even if it's not a crime.
<a href="https://events.ccc.de/congress/2025/infos/fundamentals-and-faq.html#photos-videos" rel="nofollow">https://events.ccc.de/congress/2025/infos/fundamentals-and-f...
lynx97 · · focus · HN ↗
MomsAVoxell · · focus · HN ↗
A society which censors the public sphere, endangers the public.
It’s a double-edged sword, and photography - like many technologies - can be weaponized against the individual; but it can also be used to gain justice against the crimes of the state.
The disrespect, entitlement and self-centered posturing goes both ways though, though.
“No, sorry, I wasn’t taking a picture of you, I was taking a picture of that cute dog - you just happened to be in the background, and I wouldn’t have anything to do with you if you weren’t so paranoid and self-centered…”
Public photography is a right which needs to be protected - by the public.
Just ask Rodney King. Or, you know, the children of Gaza. If you don’t know what either of those have to do with this discussion, you probably haven’t seen the photos…
atoav · · focus · HN ↗
"Use public data, protect private data" has been one of the main reasons in the CCC since the 80s, at the same time German Law and culture is different when it comes to taking pictures than what you seem used to. Maybe familiarize yourself with it before you break the law and claim everybody else is wrong.
MomsAVoxell · · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49743649">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49743649
I have a great deal of respect for German culture - this is why I live in a DACH state in the first place.
CCC is a private event and I absolutely concur that their policies are acceptable in that circumstance.
> German Law and culture is different when it comes to taking pictures than what you seem used to
No, in fact, I am quite familiar with the law - to the extent that I am prepared to defend my position.
One thing I don’t respect, is the German proclivity to repress the public sphere. You will never beat that out of me - I have seen the positive results of public photography deliver justice in plenty of cultures where it was desperately needed.
It is perfectly fine for me to take whatever pictures I want in the public sphere - as long as I respect others’ rights and wishes to not be the subject of that photography.
lynx97 · · focus · HN ↗
MomsAVoxell · · focus · HN ↗
Do you want to live in a free and open society or not?
The fact is, the general public having the ability to take photo’s of the scene in front of them - idyllic or horrific - is essential to the continued operation of our society.
Familiar with the Rodney King case, by any chance?
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
felixg3 · · focus · HN ↗
cookiengineer · · focus · HN ↗
It is not. It's the law.
In Germany you are not allowed to photograph people without their written and signed consent. Any conference or event counts as a private event when it is organized on private property. If it's not a building or space owned by the city, it is private property. This includes e.g. swimming pools owned by the Stadtwerke (there have been lawsuits because of that, all decisions in favor of privacy).
For example, even cameras that protect your property by filming the outside area are not permitted to film the street, and they have to be arranged to point towards your own property. That's why even banks have cameras always on the corners of the building, pointing back to their own property.
Again, it's the law. It's pretty strict about this sort of thing, especially because of WW2 and post WW2 times, where a lot of people died because of Stasi misinformation or Zerstörungstaktik related things.
Source: was a helper and organizer of a lot of CCC events before 2021.
GDPR/DSGVO means you have to get written consent by all visitors, otherwise you cannot make photos of the event and publish them.
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗
aleph_minus_one · · focus · HN ↗
mitxela · · focus · HN ↗