Thread

Weeping whales: Stillborn humpback whale grieving documented

243 points · 192 comments · wglb

georgemcbay · 1789884732 · focus · HN ↗
Blows my mind that so many people just have this hardened internalized idea that we're somehow significantly different than any other animal.
Sure, we've got them beat on language and planning, but we're currently in the process of being passed up on both those fronts by multi-dimensional arrays of floating point numbers sitting inside of sand. So, like, how special is that then, really?
1. sethammons · 1789896279 · focus · HN ↗
  We should start from the default assumption that other animals have a lived experience not unlike our own until proven otherwise.
  Mammal brains are similar between species. Show me why they wont behave like ours. Most say who say animals can't grieve are in the same boat with those who used to say human babies don't feel pain.
  Every time we look deeper, we find we humans are less special in any given quality. Yes, humans seem unique in our level of language and knowledge passing. For now; until we discover something else.
  Here is a studying on rats. They grieve. Brain, chemical, and social activity. <a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12244160/" rel="nofollow">https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12244160/
  1. david-gpu · 1789898425 · focus · HN ↗
    > Most say who say animals can't grieve are in the same boat with those who used to say human babies don't feel pain.
    My dad was an anesthesiologist, and what he told me is rather different from that meme. The reason was that the safe dosing range for babies was unknown, and giving the wrong dose can lead to death or worse. The argument wasn't that babies couldn't feel pain, but that babies would not have lasting memories of it happening, and that it was less risky that overdosing them.
    card_zero · 1789902465 · focus · HN ↗
    You know, if there was a hypnotic drug such that I could be sure I'd remember nothing (and many, many similar caveats), I'd volunteer to be caused all kinds of pain, because I don't see why I should care. The only moral angle I can see is the question of who would want it and why. Research maybe? In of itself, it doesn't seem bad.
    thriftwy · 1789911211 · focus · HN ↗
    Isn't that the same as submitting your clone to fear and torment because you will not have a lasting memory of surviving all that?
    What's the practical difference other than timelike distance between you rather than spacelike distance?
    card_zero · 1789918573 · focus · HN ↗
    No, there's a difference, in that my clone would get PTSD or some similar trauma as a result, which is a waste of a large part of that clone's life. In the version where I'm drugged into forgetfulness, I've only wasted a day, for science and profit.
    [deleted] · 1789970498 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]

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