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Weeping whales: Stillborn humpback whale grieving documented

243 points · 192 comments · wglb

georgemcbay · 1789884732 · focus · HN ↗
Blows my mind that so many people just have this hardened internalized idea that we're somehow significantly different than any other animal.
Sure, we've got them beat on language and planning, but we're currently in the process of being passed up on both those fronts by multi-dimensional arrays of floating point numbers sitting inside of sand. So, like, how special is that then, really?
1. jibal · 1789888003 · focus · HN ↗
  "People ache to believe that we human beings are vastly different from all other species – and they are right! We are different. We are the only species that has an extra medium of design preservation and design communication: culture."
  — Daniel Dennett
  <a href="https://now.tufts.edu/2020/09/02/our-brains-our-selves" rel="nofollow">https://now.tufts.edu/2020/09/02/our-brains-our-selves
  "One of the problems with defining consciousness is that it’s several different things—and it means different things to different people. There is a sense of consciousness in which starfish are conscious. Worms are conscious. Even trees, even bacteria are conscious. But there’s one dividing line between the amoeba and the professor in the consciousness department, which really marks off a huge difference: language.
  It’s language that enables us to ask ourselves questions and reflect on our own experience. Frogs notice all kinds of things in their world, but I don’t think they can notice their noticings. I don’t think they can dwell on them. That whole sort of stairway of curiosity that we have built-in doesn’t exist for any species but us, and that makes a huge difference. Human consciousness is to animal consciousness roughly as language is to bird song. Birdsong communicates, but not much."
  "Consciousness is not a part of the brain. It’s what brains can do. Particularly it’s what human brains can do when they are mature and well-designed, and a lot of that design is not innate. It’s not in your genes—in the same way German or English isn’t in your genes. Many of the features of consciousness are things that basically get installed culturally and at mother’s knee. It’s part of your rearing, your upbringing, your learning languages. It’s what you learn language in, and you learn a lot of consciousness, too."
  "A lot of species have elements of culture. Chimpanzees have some grooming rituals and the like. But only one species has explosively cumulative culture, and that’s us. Of course, that depends on our having language. All of technology and civilization, art, science, religion, all these are the fruits of human culture."
  “I think that one of the hardest tasks a human mind can face is reserving judgment about a conviction that has always seemed to you obvious and thinking about how maybe that might not be right"
  1. nextaccountic · 1789888277 · focus · HN ↗
    We are not different. Whales exhibit culture too.
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_culture" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_culture
    <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/evolution/comments/rduhmx/does_any_species_other_than_humans_have_culture/" rel="nofollow">https://www.reddit.com/r/evolution/comments/rduhmx/does_any_...
    jibal · 1789889374 · focus · HN ↗
    That obviously doesn't mean that we're not different--we obviously are, and it's not intellectually honest to deny it. There are SO many examples of things that have some common trait but are obviously different--skyscrapers and huts are both buildings, but they are different. Cheetahs and Usain Bolt both run fast, but they are different. Bacteria and oak trees are both alive, but they are different. "alike" and "different" are both words, but they are different. And so on ad infinitum.
    If you had read the link above, you would have seen
    "A lot of species have elements of culture. Chimpanzees have some grooming rituals and the like. But only one species has explosively cumulative culture, and that’s us. Of course, that depends on our having language. All of technology and civilization, art, science, religion, all these are the fruits of human culture."
    which I have added to my comment.
    I won't pursue further discussion when it's at such a shallow level of thinking as "we are not different" despite numerous clear differences.
    P.S. nor with flaggable vituperation that only reflects extremely badly on the person who responded to me
    DANmode · 1789929878 · focus · HN ↗
    Won’t engage because you can’t.
    Lots of evidence that whales, dolphins (plenty of other animals), are collectively doing a better job at collective satisfaction within their society and culture.
    Your “explosive” culture argument is…uncompelling.

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