Thread

EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

693 points · 905 comments · hackernj

neom · 1789557380 · focus · HN ↗
No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)
1. FabCH · 1789557897 · focus · HN ↗
  Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration.
  So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa.
  No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget.
  Tighter integration than UK, not as tight as Norway/Switzerland/Iceland.
  Common defense was already agreed anyhow.
  I can tell you this enjoys broad support in the EU public. Although, no joke, a lot of peoples first reaction is: "They need to compete in Eurovision first. Otherwise they should wait for Australia to join first."
  1. klelatti · 1789559328 · focus · HN ↗
    > Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration.
    > no payments into each others budget.
    Not going to happen!
    To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment.
    Even when the regimes are basically identical - eg the UK - then the EU doesn't permit it without budgetary contributions.
    fidotron · 1789560403 · focus · HN ↗
    It's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum.
    All depends on what an associate member is of course.
    corford · 1789561057 · focus · HN ↗
    >inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum.
    That's a bit of a stretch
    fidotron · 1789561741 · focus · HN ↗
    It's literally what happened.
    Cameron was trying to reduce the scope of EU integration with the UK (esp freedom of movement), with the threat he didn't want to use of a referendum, the EU said no (as the other commenter explained partly to disincentivize others, but also because they thought he was bluffing and people would never vote to leave), so the referendum was held.
    thih9 · 1789561995 · focus · HN ↗
    To be fair, freedom of movement is one of the core principles[1] of the EU.
    Restricting that is a tall ask, I wouldn't describe refusing that as being inflexible.
    [1]: <a href="https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/principles-and-values/aims-and-values_en" rel="nofollow">https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor... "Freedom of movement gives citizens the right to move and reside freely within the Union."
    gizajob · 1789562472 · focus · HN ↗
    I kind of made a point like this in the other thread - during Brexit it was a very hard No from the EU that they couldn’t negotiate on key points such as freedom of movement, and countries are either IN and have everything the EU comes with, or they’re out. Now, it seems, that Canada is being offered a favourable half-in arrangement simply because they’ve never before been involved. Seems pretty bizarre and arbitrary for the EU, but also totally standard for the EU because it’s bizarre and arbitrary.
    foldr · 1789563320 · focus · HN ↗
    This potential deal for Canada comes with compromises which would obviously be unacceptable to the UK (e.g. no full voting rights).
    gizajob · 1789563550 · focus · HN ↗
    Likely as unacceptable to Canadians.
    rsynnott · 1789564539 · focus · HN ↗
    EEA nations (Norway, Iceland etc) have found them acceptable, and preferable to fully joining up.
    thunderfork · 1789565041 · focus · HN ↗
    It's fine by me (sample size 1 Canuck)
    fidotron · 1789563658 · focus · HN ↗
    Does anyone actually know publicly what is and isn't the deal for associate membership?
    At least here (in Canada) I'm not seeing any concrete details.
    jeromegv · 1789564811 · focus · HN ↗
    No, nothing public, we are all speculating. But we can surely guess at 99% that Canada would get no voting power, being that we are in North America and Canada isn't interested in that kind of arrangement.
    drdexebtjl · 1789563749 · focus · HN ↗
    The crucial distinction is which half is in which “half-in” agreement.
    They are not offering Canada conditions that the UK would have wanted.
    Jackpillar · 1789564469 · focus · HN ↗
    Not sure why its so difficult for you to understand the obvious goal of taking a hardline stance on leaving the EU as a member state vs onboarding possible partnerships, members, etc. You're looking at this backwards.
    grumbelbart2 · 1789565022 · focus · HN ↗
    Cameron wanted to split the four freedoms. Canada does not, from what I can read.
    antalis · 1789565084 · focus · HN ↗
    That's wrong, he did get what he wanted before the referendum: "After the deal had been approved, Cameron described it as giving the United Kingdom "special status within the European Union" and immediately declared that both he and the UK Government would campaign for a "Remain" vote in the referendum within a "reformed European Union"." <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%932016_United_Kingdom_renegotiation_of_European_Union_membership" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%932016_United_Kingd...
    rjsw · 1789567176 · focus · HN ↗
    I think that the EU would be in worse shape today if the UK had followed most other members at the time and restricted freedom of movement to it for the countries that joined in 2004 and 2007. It would have been nice to have got some credit for that.

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