Thread

EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

693 points · 905 comments · hackernj

neom · 1789557380 · focus · HN ↗
No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)
1. dmos62 · 1789557594 · focus · HN ↗
  > as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes
  EU has such a bad name in these circles. As a EU citizen, I cherish these same regimes.
  1. Autious · 1789557781 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeah, I'm curious about which ones are a problem. I could see there being some incompatibility, and the details are more interesting than sweeping statements.
    Some regulations would have to be normalized and agreed upon between the countries for trade open up. Can't have different quality standards and ways of evaluating and declaring them.
    nonethewiser · 1789558189 · focus · HN ↗
    PPWR is an obvious one. Its such a dysfunctional law that they actually told people to ignore it.
    mitxela · 1789561446 · focus · HN ↗
    Programmers keep thinking law is if/then, it's not, it's a set of instructions to judges, which may contain obvious errors or conflict with other instructions, which is why we allow humans to interpret them instead of computers.
    nonethewiser · 1789616725 · focus · HN ↗
    Do you grant that there are poorly written laws?
    Are you defending PPWR? Not in spirit but actual implementation?
    It will never get so-far as the judge because the EU has already admitted the law cant be followed and arent going to be taking people to court over it.
    Regardless of the intent, it's an abject failure.
    fidotron · 1789558323 · focus · HN ↗
    Welcome to Canada where the regulations are in fact provincial.
    Canadian provinces have a harder time trading with each other than countries in the EU, although thanks to the sales tax and package transit changes the EU is becoming competitive in this area.
    bryanlarsen · 1789563060 · focus · HN ↗
    Provincial trade barriers basically only exist in two areas: liquor and labor licensing.
    graemep · 1789558424 · focus · HN ↗
    One I have actually dealt with was VATMOSS. Especially when first introduced it had very low ceilings for registration and actually deterred small businesses from trading across borders.
    I also think GDPR is too strict for small businesses and non-profits and not strict enough to deal with big businesses that trade data.
    jeltz · 1789559809 · focus · HN ↗
    Having health with VATMOSS too my experience is that it was trivial to implement. Maybe your country fucked up the rollout? Here in Sweden I had zero issues.
    graemep · 1789560645 · focus · HN ↗
    Its not the country, its the implementation cost for small businesses. In particular the ceiling for registration was so low that even micro-businesses with minimal cross border sales had to comply.
    Its would have been trivial for a big business, but it was not for small businesses.
    fc417fc802 · 1789560970 · focus · HN ↗
    > too strict for small businesses and non-profits
    Maybe just calibrated poorly. Small enough and IMO the only important rule is no sharing with others. That should always be strictly enforced. But why worry about how some small timer handles my personal data or if I can make various requests of him? The stakes are too small to matter.
    neom · 1789558486 · focus · HN ↗
    ...Those cookie banner things for a start!! heh. ;)
    Mostly just wouldn't really work because Ottawa would have to somehow represent the provinces to the EU and the provinces and Ottawa don't work together in a way that would be compatible, I don't think anyone in Canada would want to change how Ottawa works with them. We may also end up in the same position again as we have with the Americans, nobody but us likes our supply management system[1]. GDPR is also something I think Canadians would struggle to get behind, our PIPEDA framework is quite good and I think most folks approve of it (except Quebec, who have their own framework). Taking the Euro would be a problem, etc etc, I think I could probably build quite a big list. btw, I respect the EU regulation, and that Europeans quite like it, I was just saying I don't think it would be practical for us to re-work the whole country to accommodate them, that's all.
    [1]<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag...
    Jackpillar · 1789564701 · focus · HN ↗
    You're on a tech-focused Silicon Valley based news forum. Most people here think if you're not carte blanche allowing your Ai companies unfettered hyperscale economy-threatening death spiral infrastructure investments for a nebulous end goal that benefits a small minority with undertones of civilizational collapse and mass unemployment then you're a over-regulatory nanny-state that is crushing innovation.
  2. jorvi · 1789557829 · focus · HN ↗
    Yup. Oh no, my meat isn't pumped full of hormones and vacuums aren't allowed to be hearing-damagingly loud. The horror..
    Also re: OP, yes if you want to sell stuff in the EU, you will need to adhere to the same rules as EU companies.
    ocd · 1789558137 · focus · HN ↗
    I have such fatigue from listening to the rhetoric and whining from US farmers when enough of their goods are dangerous for consumers and illegal in Canada and the EU.
    It's all bad faith from the US trying to run over any market they don't control so they can weaponize control over food supply of another nation later.
    SyneRyder · 1789560287 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't mind countries setting their own rules for the food they want to consume, and for sure the EU can be overly bureaucratic.
    On the other hand, the US is the only country I've been to where I have purchased milk in a completely sealed plastic container, and it was rancid when I opened it. Upstate New York is proud of their local and organic produce, but they are selling rancid milk in stores like that's a normal thing. That was a shock as a visiting Australian.
    next_xibalba · 1789566320 · focus · HN ↗
    > purchased milk in a completely sealed plastic container, and it was rancid when I opened it
    I've lived in the U.S. for 40 years in 8 different states and twice as many cities. Never once have I experienced this.
    wateralien · 1789564270 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh no, my Haribos aren't full of artificial colours.
    swiftcoder · 1789565457 · focus · HN ↗
    I remember a delightful trip to Canada, where I ordered a hamburger, and they'd only let me have it well-done. I asked why, and the waitress says "The beef comes from the US", with a grimace...
  3. Grombobulous · 1789557839 · focus · HN ↗
    How dare the EU try to preserve competitive open markets. We can’t have capitalism in the leveragist serfdom economy!
  4. lawn · 1789558270 · focus · HN ↗
    As a Swede I have a bunch of grievances with the EU but when I look at the US I can't help but feel how lucky I am to live on this side of the pond.
    graemep · 1789558925 · focus · HN ↗
    I am British, pro-Brexit, and still prefer France to the US as a neighbour. I would have always said that - its not just Trump.
    mcv · 1789559066 · focus · HN ↗
    Exactly. The EU has plenty of faults, but I don't see anything better. Improving on the EU is better than abandoning it.
    WarmWash · 1789567170 · focus · HN ↗
    Keep in mind, social media and western online dialogue is extremely US centric. If every country was a house, the US is where everyone meets to party. So every spec of dust spawns endless content for everyone to dig into. Nevermind that people who have the most time to spend on social media, dictate the narratives that are popular.
    The reality is that the US better if you have money (like white collar salary man level) and (much) worse if you are an odds-and-ends gig economy type worker (like an influencer).
    From the vantage point of a ~75% income bracket home, moving to Europe is almost purely downsides (conventionally, some people give up everything for their dream to live in a cold dank cave)
    dmos62 · 1789631222 · focus · HN ↗
    You can't make that generalization. What you describe will be different city to city, not to mention country to country. Further, privacy and safety regulations (which are EU-wide) will not be available in US, independent of income.

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