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Why I'm still bearish on LLMs after Navier-Stokes

496 points · 653 comments · jaykru

  1. carodgers · · focus · HN ↗
    This April 2026 paper is a fun and related read.

    <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;html&#x2F;2509.24239v4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;html&#x2F;2509.24239v4

    Researchers asked frontier models to play chess. Have a look at the MAR rates in Table 3. When not explicitly told which moves were legal, no model identified legal moves at a rate better than 80%. Many asked for more illegal moves than legal moves. And even when explicitly told which moves were legal, the models continued to ask for illegal moves. With illegal asks discarded, none of the bots could beat a chess model calibrated to 1100 ELO.

    The author of the originating post says that &quot;current frontier models need laborious oversight and guardrails on even the simplest tasks&quot;, and he&#x27;s absolutely correct.

    1. glitchc · · focus · HN ↗
      Why not ask it to implement a chess engine first, and then use that to play against you?

      Does the LLM need to learn to play chess if it can build a chess engine to play for it instead?

      1. lionkor · · focus · HN ↗
        With that approach, the benchmark falls apart. Of course it can write a chess engine, because it learned on lots of stolen source code of chess engines. This has nothing to do with the LLM&#x27;s ability to reason.

        Writing a well understood engine for a super popular problem does not count as reasoning about the problem.

        1. glitchc · · focus · HN ↗
          &gt; Writing a well understood engine for a super popular problem does not count as reasoning about the problem.

          Doesn&#x27;t writing the engine imply understanding about the problem domain? Tool use is a widely accepted measure of intelligence.

          1. Capricorn2481 · · focus · HN ↗
            Definitely not. A human can write a chess engine without being very good at chess.
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