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Japan's book scene is moving from bookstores to libraries

241 points · 111 comments · herbertl

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ionwake · 1789282460 · focus · HN ↗
I liked the article. Everytime I discoered a unique place I want to tell the world about it and then I realize that could ruin it so I dont.
Its ironic
1. darknavi · 1789599699 · focus · HN ↗
  It reminds of one of the later scenes from Secret Life of Walter Mitty when Sean (photographer) decides not to take a picture of the elusive snow leopard in front of them.
  > Walter Mitty: Are you going to take it?
  > Sean O'Connell: Sometimes I don't. If I like a moment, for me, personally, I don't like to have the distraction of the camera. I just want to stay in it.
  > Walter Mitty: Stay in it?
  > Sean O'Connell: Yeah. Right there. Right here.
  1. ionwake · 1789657600 · focus · HN ↗
    I really liked that film.
2. FlowingRiver · 1789603358 · focus · HN ↗
  Very true. If everyone on the planet was allowed to walk over the great pyramids of Egypt, they would be pounded into dust. Sometimes it is better just to observe and move on.
  1. ionwake · 1789657569 · focus · HN ↗
    agreed
3. jimbokun · 1789649540 · focus · HN ↗
  Sometimes those places die out from lack of visitors.
  1. ionwake · 1789657513 · focus · HN ↗
    trust me , my places only remain because of a lack of visitors.
    it only takes one to ruin a beautiful spot.
    it also means the only people to see it are ones worthy enough to have found it on their own. I like that. I would share with like minded others but only if I trust them.
    shame I find it hard to motivate myself to grow my social circle, there should be a club maybe I should make one, but noone would want to join it lol not knowing what cool stuff we could share
Molitor5901 · 1789594309 · focus · HN ↗
It would be interesting if libraries also operated, say, cafes. Rules apply of course, but it might create a job and add something extra to a library.
1. ktallett · 1789594421 · focus · HN ↗
  Japan already has a range of cafes that let you read books, manga, or listen to music
2. UncleOxidant · 1789594592 · focus · HN ↗
  There's a library in the neighboring suburb that has a little cafe in the lobby.
3. jaw · 1789597466 · focus · HN ↗
  When visiting Delft in the Netherlands I was extremely jealous that the library there not only had a cafe, but that the cafe served wine and the whole place was open until like 11pm. Haven’t encountered anything like that in the US.
  1. therealdrag0 · 1789625285 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh wow I remember having the same feeling there. I had forgotten about that, thanks for the memory.
  2. Molitor5901 · 1790173326 · focus · HN ↗
    YES! I encountered the same thing in Melbourne some years ago, a little cafe just inside the library whose profits 100% went to the library.
4. LtWorf · 1789598033 · focus · HN ↗
  I think at least a couple do have cafes here in Göteborg
5. TulliusCicero · 1789601885 · focus · HN ↗
  This would definitely be a great thing to add.
  One thing that I don't like about American culture is that people are a little too hesitant about adding 'retail' into publicly-owned spaces. There's a reflexive attitude of that being A Bad Thing, even though most Americans who visit, say, Japan, really appreciate the various shops and kiosks they have in transit stations over there.
  I also really enjoyed in Germany when at the top of some hike there'd be an inn+restaurant, something Americans seem to treat as nearly anathema.
  1. ikr678 · 1789608469 · focus · HN ↗
    Given the rest of American culture is intensely commercialised, I can see why there is a desire to protect the remaining non-commercial spaces.
    My local library has an indepenently run coffee kiosk out front, the Council (local govt) own the facility and lease it to the operator, and presumably have some lease terms about allowable signage and branding.
    I'd probably feel differently if it was a mega franchise like Starbucks or McCafe right at the entrance of a civic building.
    TulliusCicero · 1789627906 · focus · HN ↗
    I understand why, but it often results in bad outcomes. Part of why transit in other countries is better is often precisely because of greater commercialization. It's not just that it's more convenient for travelers, but also it makes money to fund transit.
    RugnirViking · 1789635645 · focus · HN ↗
    this. and of course, the structure of these arrangements matters greatly. If the food places in the stations are making good money and the trains themselves are breaking even, you want the money to be flowing to the same people who run the trains, lest the train operator stops operating and the food places suddenly find themselves without customers
    Molitor5901 · 1790173600 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd probably feel differently if it was a mega franchise like Starbucks or McCafe right at the entrance of a civic building.
    I would too. It would be in the government's interest to chose an operator and lease out space, but only if it were done in the most fair manner possible. I have no clue about such matters, I confess, but I would not want to see the idea politicized; as in only certain people can apply, or preferences given to certain classes. Perhaps a little contentious in the short run, but in the long term it would be better.
    And yes, alas, if it's Starbucks that has the best deal, then so be it. In fact, playing devil's advocate, what IF Starbucks said we'll give you 100% of our profits from this location on the sale of beverages?
    Probably best that the library gets the money from leasing the space, and let's the local operator earn whatever they can.
6. bradly · 1789602096 · focus · HN ↗
  That is talked about in detail in the article. A private company opened a public library and put food and drinks into it.
7. code_duck · 1789603469 · focus · HN ↗
  [delayed]
8. bee_rider · 1789605118 · focus · HN ↗
  The library in my town had coffee, but it was more like a library that had a little coffee than a cafe with a library, if that makes sense.
9. Jach · 1789617334 · focus · HN ↗
  The Tokyo Metropolitan Central Library's top floor has a cafeteria.
10. justincormack · 1789647934 · focus · HN ↗
  The British Library appears to have 7 cafes <a href="https://www.bl.uk/visit/eat-drink-shop" rel="nofollow">https://www.bl.uk/visit/eat-drink-shop
akman · 1789595265 · focus · HN ↗
As the author noted, I see libraries becoming more and more centers of community, notably in the Bay Area (California, USA). Just check out the events at all of the Santa Clara County library system (8 libraries that share books): <a href="https://sccl.bibliocommons.com/v2/events?_gl=1*11u0hec*_ga*MTI0MTAxODk0NS4xNzg2NTEyMjY1*_ga_G99DMMNG39*czE3ODk1OTQ5MTMkbzMkZzAkdDE3ODk1OTQ5MTQkajU5JGwwJGgw*_ga_C5XQHLX1NN*czE3ODk1OTQ5MTMkbzMkZzAkdDE3ODk1OTQ5MTQkajU5JGwwJGgw*_ga_C79ES1D7Q4*czE3ODcyODU5NjUkbzIkZzAkdDE3ODcyODU5NjUkajYwJGwwJGgw" rel="nofollow">https://sccl.bibliocommons.com/v2/events?_gl=1*11u0hec*_ga*M...
Many events aren't even book related-- see events for Lego building, homework help, even Dungeons and Dragons events.
I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
1. carabiner · 1789595571 · focus · HN ↗
  In Seattle they're mostly homeless shelters.
  1. popalchemist · 1789596130 · focus · HN ↗
    In LA, it's about 50/50. But in case you aren't aware, this is one of the purposes of libraries.
    cube00 · 1789597106 · focus · HN ↗
    Depends, some libraries won't let you sleep in there.
    popalchemist · 1789609728 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't mean it's a shelter for them in the literal sense. As in a place to sleep. It IS however meant to be a safe harbor - a place they are welcome to simply EXIST.
    Ask google "is the ethos of libraries to help the homeless"
    Here's what it says: The core ethos of libraries is to provide universal, equitable access to information, resources, and safe spaces for all members of a community, including people experiencing homelessness. While public libraries are not specifically designed to be homeless shelters or social service agencies, their foundational commitment to inclusivity means they naturally serve as a vital lifeline for marginalized populations.
    This has always been the case.
    carefree-bob · 1789610761 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm not sure what you mean by "ethos of libraries", but this was not the original intent of libraries, or the "ethos" that most voters would use when deciding whether to fund a library or not.
    The problem with reimagining the role of publicly funded institutions and ascribing a new "ethos" to them that is not supported by the public is that funding gets cut and libraries get shut down.
    If you want to know the original ethos of libraries, it was to disseminate knowledge at low cost to members of the community. Not to be socially inclusive. Not to make people feel welcome. Not to provide "safe spaces". But to provide access to knowledge. By subverting this ethos, we have also subverted a lot of the funding model and political support, which is why libraries are having a difficult time right now.
    popalchemist · 1789620193 · focus · HN ↗
    Perhaps you do not know anyone who works in a library. Go ask one. This has been the ethos for over 100 years in America.
    carefree-bob · 1789620445 · focus · HN ↗
    In fact, I do. Maybe you are in a bubble, but go ahead and try to get people to vote for public funding of "safe spaces" and then have them vote for public funding of "convenient access to media for taxpayers", and see which proposition gets the most votes. You will be surprised, and then you will accuse America of being a fascist country, when the actual ethos of people are revealed.
    popalchemist · 1789622059 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/services-poor-homeless" rel="nofollow">https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/serv...
    it was formalized in the 60's but there was a precedent going back AT LEAST to the wild west.
    carefree-bob · 1789622831 · focus · HN ↗
    LOL, this is just a political screed.
    Here is Andrew Carnegie, the father of the US Library movement:
    * "When I was a boy in Pittsburgh, Colonel Anderson... opened his little library of four hundred books to boys. Every Saturday afternoon he was in attendance himself at his house to exchange books... I resolved, if ever wealth came to me, that it should be used to establish free libraries, that other poor boys might receive opportunities similar to those for which we were indebted to that noble man."
    * On why libraries are the ultimate philanthropic investment against dependency: "I choose free libraries as the best agencies for improving the masses of the people, because they give nothing for nothing. They only help those who help themselves. They never pauperize. They reach the aspiring and open to these chief treasures of the world—those stored up in books."
    * On the democratic and community-elevating value of a library:"The best gift which can be given to a community is a free library, that outranks any other one thing that a community can do to help its people. It is a never-failing spring in the desert." On how they function as instruments of self-advancement:They act as "ladders provided upon which the aspiring may climb."
    Part of Carnegie's self-help and meritocratic philosophy required that the local communities pay for the upkeep of the library, funded by community taxes, equal to at least 10% of the value of the land. He never gave away a library unless there was this matching commitment from the community, since he wanted it to be clear that this is a community investment in providing free access to books for the local population.
    Look, this isn't hard. Books were historically expensive. It made sense for communities to pool their resources so that they can get common books for every community member, rather than having each person buy their own book. We don't need to pretend that there is some mystery as to what the foundation of libraries was. It was cost-reduction, making the benefits of books (knowledge) available to the community via a public subsidy. It was never intended to be a campground or to be a housing service.
    It requires an extremely ahistorical and uninformed person to think that this was about "safe spaces" and not "let's pool our money so our community can have these expensive books". Unfortunately such an uninformed and distorted view of libraries is not uncommon among the "libraries were always safe spaces" crowd.
    popalchemist · 1789623689 · focus · HN ↗
    The ALA is the canonical answer as to what is official policy of American libraries. Whether you agree with its politics or not, those policies and the ethos underlying them are not something new.
    You're clearly a right wing nut (since "libraries are more than buildings with books" is something you find "poltiical" and facts are something to be rejected), just come out and say it.
    badpun · 1789621067 · focus · HN ↗
    Ancient Rome had libraries already, I'm pretty sure their "ethos" wasn't about inclusivity and safe spaces. Somewhere along the line from then to now, it got subverted.
    mepian · 1789633376 · focus · HN ↗
    Ancient Rome also had slavery.
    gyomu · 1789597711 · focus · HN ↗
    De facto it is in the US, but it is the only country in the world where that is the case.
    LtWorf · 1789597991 · focus · HN ↗
    There's often smelly people napping in Sweden. I presume their housing situation isn't the best. Or they are not mentally capable of cleaning themselves.
    SyneRyder · 1789601625 · focus · HN ↗
    There's definitely some of it happening in Australia. I wouldn't regard libraries as the safest of places. I had a period where I tried working from there on my laptop, before realizing I was incredibly naive and there were a lot of homeless and mentally ill people there. Took me a while to realize why people would tell me to avoid the men's toilets in the library as well.
    imawakegnxoxo · 1789619410 · focus · HN ↗
    Homeless problem in Australia right now is insane
    People sleeping in every car park at parks and beaches etc
    I'm a night person with bad insomnia so I often go for drives or walks at night and a lot of my favourite places to go are now heavily populated by people sleeping in their cars
    SyneRyder · 1789634943 · focus · HN ↗
    Night person here too - midnight walks during an Australian summer are excellent.
    The homeless situation isn't quite that bad where I am in Perth's suburbs, but there was a guy living out of his 4WD in a local shopping center carpark for a while. He had a prominent sign about his situation asking for money, but to his credit he was offering to do things in return (he helped a family member with a deflated tire once). Many of the homeless in Perth city seem to be mental health cases though, where a skilled job providing an income that could support themselves is unlikely.
    trollbridge · 1789651211 · focus · HN ↗
    Right, libraries should be safe spaces for children to go by themselves and read books, like I did was 8 and 9. I rode my bike and looked for computer books, and found a book that was a compilation of Dr. Dobb’s Journal.
    It is unreasonable to allow library patrons to make it unsafe for anyone, particularly children, but that has become the de facto standard in many areas. There are a lot of libraries I would not allow my kids to be in by themselves.
    emptybits · 1789613378 · focus · HN ↗
    It's a trend in Canada also. Libraries are being seen as a social safety net.
    <a href="https://www.policyalternatives.ca/news-research/public-libraries-are-becoming-the-new-social-safety-net/" rel="nofollow">https://www.policyalternatives.ca/news-research/public-libra...
    TulliusCicero · 1789598023 · focus · HN ↗
    It really shouldn't be. We should have dedicated shelters for that.
    Relying on libraries to be de facto homeless shelters is bad for everyone compared to the alternative of dedicated facilities. It's worse for homeless people, worse for the library and staff, and worse for patrons.
    crooked-v · 1789599199 · focus · HN ↗
    Unfortunately, the US is filled with people who are happy to make their own lives worse if it hurts people they don't like even more.
    popalchemist · 1789609684 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    bobthepanda · 1789612857 · focus · HN ↗
    The problem is that we’ve wound up in an unhappy place due to the weird perverse incentives of ideology. Taking homeless people off the street, whether to a hospital or jail, costs a lot of money; so we lack something to do in a climate where a good chunk of the populace is rabidly against paying more money for anything.
    TulliusCicero · 1789628057 · focus · HN ↗
    I think you're right that people are against these things, but wrong about the reasons.
    Taking homeless people to jail because they're homeless just seems stupid and pointless, not to mention harmful to the person going to jail.
    Shelters have the issue where people don't want them near where they live (for often justifiable reasons) but obviously they have to go somewhere.
    OroPla · 1789644224 · focus · HN ↗
    Don't we already have rehabilitation centers? I definitely think that you have to take homeless people being a nuisance off the streets against their will.
    There's already plenty of invisible homeless people living out of a car that shower in the gym. They aren't a public nuisance and there should be structures where someone like that can get help from.
    But the actual homeless problem are the drug addicts and beggars that are a public nuisance. There's no solution to that problem other than moving them against their will, is there?
    TulliusCicero · 1789939425 · focus · HN ↗
    I totally agree. If homelessness is causing you to become a public nuisance (meaning lawbreaking) then clearly something has to be done. It should be a choice of help or jail, where obviously we'd prefer they get help, but jail is the stick.
    It shouldn't be a crime exactly to set up a tent in a park because you're homeless, but if you then refuse to get help from society to fix the underlying issue, that's not acceptable. Can't have it both ways.
    bobthepanda · 1789939440 · focus · HN ↗
    Generally speaking, there aren’t enough.
    If you wanted to find a shelter bed for every single person on the street in a major city like San Francisco right now, that’s not possible. And that’s just the physical space, not even the medical staff or caseworkers you would want to handle those. And you need those in jail too, because corrections officers can’t and don’t want to manage mental health episodes.
    Californian jails were at 200%+ capacity as recently as ten years ago until courts ordered that constituted cruel and inhumane punishment. Now most counties are around max capacity.
    bobthepanda · 1789657533 · focus · HN ↗
    I say this because this country has a history of dismantling systems and then not paying for replacements.
    We did it with state institutions, which were supposed to be replaced by community mental health centers but that never happened. And then we did it with jail overcrowding reduction, where we didn’t set up adequate recidivism reduction programs.
    Before the recent pivot to tough on crime, a lot of sentencing reform was started by Republican led states, simply because jail costs a lot of money.
    trollbridge · 1789650856 · focus · HN ↗
    LA collectively spends about $3 billion on various things for homeless people, who number around 70-80,000. That’s $40,000 per person per year.
    What level of spending would you like to see?
    bobthepanda · 1789657376 · focus · HN ↗
    The problem is to stop spending money we need to spend some money to set up something like a mental institution.
    Prison, which was being used for that purpose, costs California $127k a year <a href="https://www.lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost" rel="nofollow">https://www.lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost
    Just the bed at a Californian state hospital for mental health treatment costs at minimum $150k+ a year. <a href="https://www.dsh.ca.gov/Hospitals/" rel="nofollow">https://www.dsh.ca.gov/Hospitals/
    trollbridge · 1789755109 · focus · HN ↗
    There isn’t currently the political will to start putting people in institutions against their will.
    bobthepanda · 1789939098 · focus · HN ↗
    Well yes, and also we don’t currently operate enough beds to put people into on account of those high costs.
    mulakosag · 1789617169 · focus · HN ↗
    Then don't call it a library, call it a homeless support center with books. i see the same thing here in austin, the central library is full of homeless people, shouting in silent room, shooting guns in restrooms. I love books and libraries more than anything but it saddens when place for knowledge are converted into daytime homeless shelters.
    tokai · 1789628370 · focus · HN ↗
    You can always spot the Americans because any talk about libraries will turn into whining about homeless people existing. You should fix your social system.
    trollbridge · 1789650923 · focus · HN ↗
    It should be possible to have public libraries without fixing all other social ills first.
  2. canadiantim · 1789609276 · focus · HN ↗
    That's still community
    winrid · 1789612979 · focus · HN ↗
    A smelly one
    _eht · 1789619993 · focus · HN ↗
    We are so glad you have access to showers and hygiene products with no regard. Even so, you are the kind of off-putting that soap can not fix.
    imp0cat · 1789622603 · focus · HN ↗
    So it's something like a gym? ;)
    ashkankiani · 1789653299 · focus · HN ↗
    If you saw a homeless person in a library, would you be able to tell them they smell to their face? Do you have that kind of "bravery"? Or is it just here, amongst your "peers."
    winrid · 1789758388 · focus · HN ↗
    No because they're likely mentally unstable :D
  3. Markoff · 1789627733 · focus · HN ↗
    One Prague branch I frequent is hang out spot for kids to be hooked on free wifi and stare at smartphone, there is no better place to stare at your smartphone than in library full of books! I even complained* why they won't set some time limits per connection to make it annoying enough to be useless for kids (but still usable for someone for few minutes to look up some book reviews/database), but seems everyone including management is addicted to smartphones.
    It's nice that library is welcoming young people, though not sure if encouraging their smartphone addiction is the right way to attract someone.
    *main reason for complaint wasn't kids staring at phones and playing games, but shouting swear words during gaming on phone and playing it loudly without earbuds, when I am visiting with small kids who are interested in actual books
    trollbridge · 1789650738 · focus · HN ↗
    This must be global since I had a similar experience on the east coast of the USA. It seems reasonable to expect a public library not to functionally be an Internet gamer café.
2. foundart · 1789604879 · focus · HN ↗
  SF folks: check out <a href="https://www.milibrary.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.milibrary.org/
3. Loughla · 1789606513 · focus · HN ↗
  Libraries have always had events and activities related to books and other things not book related.
  People are just now noticing them. This is a great thing and I hope it sticks.
  I believe people are getting sick of every interaction being monetized and are finally seeking out spaces where you can learn and interact with others without that threat.
  1. rapind · 1789619511 · focus · HN ↗
    > I believe people are getting sick of every interaction being monetized and are finally seeking out spaces where you can learn and interact with others without that threat.
    Shhh... you're going to get libraries monetized.
4. alephnerd · 1789606603 · focus · HN ↗
  When I was a kid in the 1990s and 2000s, libraries were already de facto community centers as well in the Bay, LA, and BC.
5. lolakutty · 1789631911 · focus · HN ↗
  >I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
  I feel there is, but I am not yet seeing anything concrete.
6. Vinnl · 1789634672 · focus · HN ↗
  > I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
  Just last week new stats came out [1] that library attendance by young people in the Netherlands is going up again, so possibly!
  [1] <a href="https://nos.nl/artikel/2630399-meer-locaties-meer-bezoekers-en-meer-leden-bibliotheek-zit-in-de-lift" rel="nofollow">https://nos.nl/artikel/2630399-meer-locaties-meer-bezoekers-...
7. alper · 1789648136 · focus · HN ↗
  It's the same here in the various city libraries of Berlin both in the state library as well in the various branches across town.
  State: <a href="https://www.zlb.de/veranstaltungsuebersicht/" rel="nofollow">https://www.zlb.de/veranstaltungsuebersicht/
  And this is by no means special. I'm pretty sure this is the case for most major city libraries in Europe.
  Other than that lots of people do their work or homework there, hangout in the outside spaces, book rooms for community meetings. With some more budget, I think there's a lot to be said for these to become default community activity/collaboration spaces.
8. trollbridge · 1789650660 · focus · HN ↗
  I see libraries throwing out large amounts of books, and then chasing non-book things that became laughably obsolete in a few years, such as:
  - audio books on little devices to plug headphones into, which have cheap rechargeable batteries that seem to be mostly dead - collections of children’s toys in a toy room that after a few years are missing most of their pieces - large collections of DVDs - computer labs full of computers that are old/slow and then need all kinds of restrictions due to a handful of antisocial people using them for inappropriate things, leaving them nearly unusable for anyone else - fancy 3D printing labs containing hardware without enough volunteers to teach people how to use it, and with hardware going obsolete or unmaintained/broken - a seed bank that had obviously not had any seed packets taken out in years
  My local library is eliminating a section of books in order to build a “sensory room”. Nothing against sensory rooms, but I’m not sure it was a good trade for yet another skip full of books. (There is a YMCA next door that would be a more appropriate place for a sensory room - and indeed it has one.)
  On a recent library trip, despite all that, the dehumidifier was not working and I saw signs of permanent humidity damage to books in the archive. This is the one thing libraries should be doing: preserving books.
9. lurk2 · 1789651950 · focus · HN ↗
  > I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
  Libraries have become obsolete as the public’s media consumption patterns have changed. The premise of the public library system was that knowledge would be made freely accessible so that it couldn’t be gatekept by elites. In practice, however, most libraries have turned into the fiefdoms of the librarians who manage them; these librarians will appeal to the access-to-knowledge premise the institutions were built on only to turn around and tut at patrons who expect the facilities to be clean, quiet, and dedicated to accessing knowledge.
  Librarians don’t want to be put out of the job, so they have redirected funding into operating as community centers. Patrons also abuse the spaces to use them as remote offices and daycares. All three practices result in a degraded experience for those who are still interested in using libraries as libraries.
10. _s_a_m_ · 1789652105 · focus · HN ↗
  Good, nice, who would have thought.
11. WillAdams · 1789658687 · focus · HN ↗
  >Libraries will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no libraries. --- Anne Herbert
swingandamiss · 1789598252 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
1. phoghed · 1789598366 · focus · HN ↗
  User name relevant
2. rjh29 · 1789598800 · focus · HN ↗
  It's true. But I'm just happy it's not another AI post
3. left-struck · 1789600456 · focus · HN ↗
  Have you considered that there might be HN users in Japan?
4. FlowingRiver · 1789603268 · focus · HN ↗
  A wild take I have seen was "Japan is the white mans Wakanda". It is a rough way of saying something important.
  There are many parts of Japanese culture that is seen as desirable and aspirational to others. The sense of social cohesion and politeness that is projected is seen as a good thing. Yes, the reality is more rough than is projected, Japan has its issues just like everywhere else. But when looking in from the outside, there are a lot of things that can be seen as goals for others to achieve.
  This is the same reason why we are seeing a lot more positive takes on China nowadays. The image of a society that is progressing in a way considered desirable. It grabs folks attention, there is also the novelty of it all as it these of nations that look similar but different.
  1. wredcoll · 1789606293 · focus · HN ↗
    It's a good point but I'd argue having something to aspire to is a good thing, even if it's fictional.
    To steal and paraphrase "the important thing about fiction isn't that you see that dragons exist, it's that learn that they can be defeated".
    Of course trying to emulate something you think is desirable based on false pretenses is its own problem, but that gets complicated.
5. tokioyoyo · 1789610081 · focus · HN ↗
  Not to play into the bait, but there are a lot of people here who live in Japan. Funnily, during JST work hours, I notice more jp related posts in the front page, because well, NA is sleeping.
6. imp0cat · 1789622841 · focus · HN ↗
  Do you want to understand what this obsession is about? You probably need to visit Japan more.
NeutralCrane · 1789599634 · focus · HN ↗
The most interesting thing in the article to me is that there was a dual library/bookstore, and that it’s privately owned. I don’t think I’ve encountered a library that wasn’t publicly owned in the US.
1. cwnyth · 1789601479 · focus · HN ↗
  In the US, private libraries tend to be non-circulating, archival, specialist, or owned by private schools.
2. AraceliHarker · 1789604837 · focus · HN ↗
  [dead]
3. alephnerd · 1789606812 · focus · HN ↗
  > The most interesting thing in the article to me is that there was a dual library/bookstore...
  At least in California, libraries often have a community run used bookstore.
  1. trollbridge · 1789651534 · focus · HN ↗
    Around here the library sales are often $5 per box of books. Sometimes you can bid on an entire dumpster load.
4. tjpnz · 1789607079 · focus · HN ↗
  Haven't encountered one in Japan either that wasn't owned by the city, but apparently I need to get out more.
5. rafram · 1789625442 · focus · HN ↗
  None of the libraries in New York City are publicly owned. NYPL, BPL, and QPL are all private nonprofits that receive public funding. It’s an odd arrangement.
6. trollbridge · 1789651497 · focus · HN ↗
  They are common here. Membership is usually a dollar or two a month. Members store their books their on a kind of permanent loan so they don’t have to store so many books in their house. It’s unstaffed and just run by its members, and members replace any books they lose.
  There is a private engineering library I visited in TN (anyone can drop in during business hours) that aims to preserve books that engineers used before everything became computer assisted.
CharlieDigital · 1789600513 · focus · HN ↗
I recently had a similar episode as the author in another east Asia country: Taiwan.
Found myself in Taitung (along the much less densely populated, remote east coast) with several inches of rain forecast. Spent the day at the Taitung County Public Library [0] and it was a very pleasant public space which had more tourists than patrons!
Shots of the interior for anyone interested (surprisingly Scandinavian): <a href="https://youtu.be/gq8xlk_JEG4?t=108" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/gq8xlk_JEG4?t=108
[0] <a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/tnEvHQLMNBGAnMWF9" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/tnEvHQLMNBGAnMWF9
1. georgefrowny · 1789638609 · focus · HN ↗
  I tried browsing bookstores on the mainland but found basically all the books are shrinkwrapped in plastic.
  Very boring indeed (but the covers are nice I guess).
  Is Taiwan similar?
  1. CharlieDigital · 1789641883 · focus · HN ↗
    Not the case!
Sweepline · 1789600945 · focus · HN ↗
Makes sense; libraries are the original 'subscription service' for knowledge. Good for sustainability and reader access.
ChickeNES · 1789601362 · focus · HN ↗
> Are you a book lover?
> If you are, I suspect you already do this: when you travel abroad, you find
> yourself walking into a local bookstore.
> I do it everywhere, not only in Japan but also abroad. My shelves hold some > Chinese and Russian books even though I cannot read a word of them. A > bookstore is one of the best places to understand the local culture: what > people there are curious about, what they worry about, what they love.
This sounds more like a fetish for physical books to me? I find it bizarre myself, books are just knowledge containers, if you can't read them...what's the point?
1. xoxxala · 1789602900 · focus · HN ↗
  I do something similar with boardgames. I like to import foreign language games or pick them when traveling. They don’t need to be in English for me to enjoy and appreciate them. I have games from Germany, France, Spain, Japan, China, Brazil, and the UK.
  My favorite is Kolejka, a Polish game about queuing at nearly empty stores during communism.
  <a href="https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka" rel="nofollow">https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/85325/kolejka
2. rtpg · 1789607050 · focus · HN ↗
  Book covers, seeing what kinda stuff is being talked about, the general vibe of the space itself.
  Lots of fun to be had wandering about, and unless you're looking at a thing where the script is really indecipherable you can kinda figure out what the topic du jour is even in foreign languages.
3. criddell · 1789647449 · focus · HN ↗
  [delayed]
  1. ChickeNES · 1789674876 · focus · HN ↗
    > One example is the family bible that's passed down from one generation to the next. That book might contain handwriting of your grand parents recording the birth of your mom. Surely you can see how that might be special to somebody?
    A personal artifact is a much different thing from some random book at a bookstore (personally, I'd rather explore the sights, take photographs, and make my own memories, not come back with someone else's). I also personally own thousands of books, they are a pain in the ass, and every day I consider liquidating most of them in favor of ebooks. I have too many to even consider treating them as art.
tolerance · 1789601645 · focus · HN ↗
I can see this catching on in the US with a lot of cultural exceptions that would amplify the library as an either an ideological battleground or sanctuary.
pullstart · 1789603044 · focus · HN ↗
Always enjoyed browsing Japanese bookstores, but libraries certainly make books more accessible. It's like the ultimate physical subscription service.
Starlevel004 · 1789604849 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
rmason · 1789609980 · focus · HN ↗
We have an excellent library in East Lansing. My sister and I went there every week with our late Mother when we were kids. I was in there recently at an AI meeting and I noticed that it was changing into a bit of a community hub as well.
Wouldn't have ever thought of it as a meeting place for user groups but they are starting to actively encourage it. I saw it as a very positive development. During COVID they advertised that anyone could use their parking lot for the free Wi-Fi. They must have had the coverage cause the rather large parking lot was packed. They must have tuned it because I sure can't give coverage in most of the lots of the fast food franchises where most of their customers these days use drive through.
1. jagged-chisel · 1789610079 · focus · HN ↗
  The fast food franchises are likely less interested in loiterers than customer turnover.
henrywangxf · 1789614618 · focus · HN ↗
That's Japan in its own style!
layman51 · 1789616371 · focus · HN ↗
> A library with 100,000 visitors in a town of only 9,000 people
That reminds me that there is a library that I believe became a bit viral on social media and now it seems like it receives so many visitors to the surrounding area and it is still quiet, but it is funny because it seems way more crowded and there's way more movement that I remember in the past.
That's why with this post, I sort of wonder whether this is something that these towns really want to have. I am under the impression that in Japan, they generally want visitors, but then they probably end up with issues from people not knowing what to do and even behaving badly.
_carbyau_ · 1789622773 · focus · HN ↗
I'm divided.
On the one hand, a quiet, unobtrusive cafe in the library seems nice.
On the other hand, I like the library precisely because it has so little of the advertising/commercial bullshit of every day.
A cafe AND a bookstore trying to sell you stuff feels over the line.
1. muyuu · 1789643731 · focus · HN ↗
  i guess they're in relatively separate spaces? that's how it's like in my local area in the UK
  I'm finding that libraries in the UK outside of big cities are resembling those in the article, just nowhere near as popular, and with a more pedestrian book selection
socalgal2 · 1789624062 · focus · HN ↗
Starbucks in bookstores? Hasn't that been a thing at Barnes and Noble for 35 years?
Tsutaya has been trying to re-invent itself because yea, it's main businesses, video rental, video/DVD sales, and music CD sales died to digital/streaming. It's not clear it's succeeding. It's unclear how they are doing. They pivoted to bookstore + starbucks + luxury stationery + lifestyle goods. Recently they've been trying co-working spaces "Share Lounge", you can pay by the hour or get monthly subscriptions. Whether this will prevent them from dying is not clear at all.
As for libraries, yes, turning them into community centers sounds great!
That said, I think the blog post is jumping to lots of unfounded conclusions.
1. timr · 1789646249 · focus · HN ↗
  Honestly, the share lounge idea is not a bad one, at least in the major cities. It can be pretty difficult to find a working space that isn't a tiny pod or a monthly commitment.
2. abecedarius · 1789654523 · focus · HN ↗
  The Austin main library has a large cafe on the ground floor. Good combo, though I liked the pre-covid one better. Maybe there should be two!
kidnoodle · 1789630145 · focus · HN ↗
My local library collocates with a cinema these days - I, and many others, were originally super sceptical about this, mostly because the arrangement made a public service and space sort beholden to a commercial entity.
Happily in practice it has turned out to be great, and the combined space operates really effectively as a community ‘third space’. Obviously because of the private sector aspect of this there’s a significant risk in terms of how sustainable it is, but moderated somewhat by the council owning the actual building both live in.
niemandhier · 1789648997 · focus · HN ↗
Libraries are one of the few places where one is allowed to exists for free, that also have a limited amount of infrastructure.
tecleandor · 1789653492 · focus · HN ↗
Some corrections to the article...
The first example, Takeo City library, wasn't opened by Tsutaya in 2013. That's a public (government) library that already existed from 2000, remodeled, and when reopening in 2013 they partnered with Tsutaya so they could have a small books/stationery shop in the library. There's a Starbucks too... I think Tsutaya might be managing part of the library, but it's not like they opened a library.
Seems like it's a program that Tsutaya is doing around the country, some sort of public/private arrangements where they do management and they add a small shop. I have mixed feelings about it, and I hope the libraries don't depend on Tsutaya's funding. For me libraries should be a totally public endeavor, and their decisions on policies or titles shouldn't be on risk because of funding pressure.
A couple links in English...
<a href="https://www.publiclibrariesnews.com/users/guest-posts/the-ccctsutaya-library-miracle-in-japan-combined-bookshop-libraries" rel="nofollow">https://www.publiclibrariesnews.com/users/guest-posts/the-cc...
<a href="https://publishingperspectives.com/2015/10/in-japan-a-gorgeous-library-leads-to-garbage-books/" rel="nofollow">https://publishingperspectives.com/2015/10/in-japan-a-gorgeo...
lateatdesk · 1789655268 · focus · HN ↗
Found a 2015 statement from Takeo explaining that planned spending on books had been cut by more than half to pay for safety work on the shelving, and CCC also acknowledged that it should have chosen the books more carefully.

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