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Cloudflare OS: an open platform for agents, apps, and work

641 points · 315 comments · speckx

  1. thehamkercat · · focus · HN ↗
    Why are companies slapping "OS" in their product naming? it's stupid
    1. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
      I think because the idea of an "agent operating system" is starting to feel more and more inevitable. Since I can use AI to:

        - Pull information from external sources
  - Transform and/or augment that information
  - Publish information
      I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore. This obviously isn't entirely true: I still use it to interact directly with humans, and it's the way I access my LLM. For now.
      1. tkel · · focus · HN ↗
        Does your LLM have hardware drivers in it? this is silly.
        1. alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
          Agreed, its like OSes have become so invisible people have actually forgotten what they do.
        2. jryle70 · · focus · HN ↗
          But "virtual machine" is not? Maybe "Virtual OS" is more acceptable?
        3. arandomhuman · · focus · HN ↗
          This is really approaching peak AI psychosis
        4. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
          I'm obviously not saying that LLMs replace the glue between hardware and software. That would be absurd.

          An operating system is just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer. Surely you can imagine a world where you boot into a ChatGPT-like interface instead of the desktop OS you are familiar with?

          Different computing paradigms already exist: mobile OS sure, but also ChromeOS... heck, install Arch Linux and you're dropped into a shell by default - not a GUI. How is this so different?

          And it doesn't even have to replace your existing OS to be your operating system: If you purchase a cloud VM (say from AWS or DigitalOcean), you're likely running an operating system on top of another operating system already.

          1. alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
            You seem to have a wrong definition of operating system in your head. The definition of Operating System is "The main software that manages a computer's hardware and software."

            An operating system is definitely not "just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer."

            > If you purchase a cloud VM...

            Then the operating system there is the link between the interface you are accessing and the underlying hardware on the physical server.

            An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS.

            1. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
              &quot;The definition&quot;? Whose? There are many definitions of &quot;operating system&quot; and I think it may be you who has it wrong: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Operating_system#Definition_and_purpose" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Operating_system#Definition_an...

              Having a kernel, drivers, or firmware does not disqualify an operating system focused on LLM-usage from being an &quot;agent operating system.&quot;

              Do you agree that Android is an OS, or would you say that the OS is Linux and Android is simply a distribution? Is the operating system &quot;Windows 11&quot; or is it Windows NT kernel? Is UEFI an OS? ChromeOS? Language isn&#x27;t always black-and-white.

              You seemed to miss the cloud computing point: are you running one OS, or two? Does one OS running on top of another OS with virtualized hardware count? If yes, then why do you think an agent OS is incompatible with a traditional OS?

              &gt; An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS.

              An OS is all of these things. I never once claimed that an agent operating system would have a kernel which &quot;is&quot; an LLM. This is an absurd interpretation.

              1. alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
                No, I disagree with everything you are saying here. You have a very misguided opinion of what an OS is.

                You linked the wikipedia page which clearly says OSes are defined by managing resources and have an always running kernel. LLMs do not meet either of these points.

                &gt; You seemed to miss the cloud computing point

                You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side.

                You also seem to keep avoiding the fact you wrote:

                &gt; it&#x27;s the way I access my LLM. For now.

                Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. This is not true at all. LLMs will never boot your hardware into a prompt. The OS will do that and hand off to the LLM. This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted.

                1. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
                  Are we reading the same Wikipedia page?

                  &gt; An operating system is difficult to define,[7] but has been called &quot;the layer of software that manages a computer&#x27;s resources for its users and their applications&quot;.[8] Operating systems include the software that is always running, called a kernel—but can include other software as well.[7][9] The two other types of programs that can run on a computer are system programs—which are associated with the operating system, but may not be part of the kernel—and applications—all other software.[9]

                  &gt; You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side.

                  This is not true. KVM is built-in to the host kernel. Maybe you&#x27;re referring only to Xen VMs?

                  &gt; Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them.

                  You removed the key point of context:

                  &gt; I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore. [...] it&#x27;s the way I access my LLM. For now.

                  I believe we will move to something that resembles microkernels and&#x2F;or thin clients.

      2. EasyMark · · focus · HN ↗
        smells like lock-in to me.
        1. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
          I&#x27;m not advocating for this model. But I&#x27;m also not sure it has any more lock-in than choosing an OS today: Windows, macOS, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, iOS.
      3. [deleted] · · focus · HN ↗

        [deleted]

      4. arandomhuman · · focus · HN ↗
        You need a &quot;traditional&quot; operating system to even run your LLM, or do you have your own custom collection of drivers you flash your machine with? :p
        1. radlad · · focus · HN ↗
          I already mentioned this:

          &gt; This obviously isn&#x27;t entirely true: [...] it&#x27;s the way I access my LLM.

          It doesn&#x27;t change my opinion that there&#x27;s a very real possibility that we move to thin clients or microkernels intended primarily to run chat interfaces (or some other UI that organizes LLM sessions and their outputs) either locally on the hardware, or against cloud computing environments. An operating system is just the interface a user has with their computer.

          More to the point - it is possible to run an operating system on top of another operating system: this is what VMs are. I&#x27;m obviously not claiming that LLMs replace the glue between hardware and software(?!)

      5. thehamkercat · · focus · HN ↗
        &gt; I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore.

        You sure about that?

        1. [deleted] · · focus · HN ↗

          [deleted]

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